 |
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
Patroklos
|
 |
Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:18
|
|
quote:
I suspect you know little about the history of the Prevention of Terrorism Act in Great Britain, the Diplock Courts, or indeed much at all about the various infringements of civil liberties occasioned in Great Britain over the past three decades by the activities of Republican and Unionist terror groups.
Activities that were in part funded by American money- the lovely people at Noraid.
I also suspect you know very little about the financial and social cost to Great Britain of this decades long war against terror, and even less about the effects the Baader Meinhof, Rote Armee Fraktion and the Red Brigades had on Italy and West Germany, but do us all a favour and do some research. |
A nuke goes of in Minn/St. Paul. One million people die, hundreds of billions of dollars in damage.
I repeat:
quote:
And all of those combined, plus 9/11, plus Madrid equal .001 percent of the destruction a nuke attack anywhere would produce. If Sydney evaporated into a ball of fire tommarrow, you would be 1984 by the next day. |
And the point stands.
I do not underestimate any of the actions you have taken, which constitute Patriot Act type tendancies. So if anything you stomped on Sir Ralph who said you don't have that type of legislation, and supported what I said, that you already have those powers so why enact it again for Madrid or a future attack.
quote:
What makes you think I perceive it like this? The United States are not a greedy, warmongering, imperialistic dictatorship. They are a greedy, warmongering, imperialistic democracy (or a republic, if you want to play smart-ass). |
Hit you right on the mark.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Sir Ralph
|
 |
Long live teh Schwampel!
Dec 2001
time: 06:18
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Patroklos
I do not underestimate any of the actions you have taken, which constitute Patriot Act type tendancies. So if anything you stomped on Sir Ralph who said you don't have that type of legislation, and supported what I said, that you already have those powers so why enact it again for Madrid or a future attack. |
Well, to make laws against terrorism is one thing, to exercise the type of fearmongering hystery like in the US after the attacks another. Besides, you can't get rid of terrorism neither by laws nor by fearmongering. Here's an analogy, admittedly simple, but I think it works:
How to make your computer (= country) 100% secure of viruses and hacker (= terrorist) attacks? Simple. Don't connect to the internet (= close your borders). Then seek for local viruses (= criminals) inside your computer (= country). Exterminate (= lock away) all viruses and trojan horses (= evil-doers  ). You're done.
But you're walled in, which is not fun. As East German I know what I'm talking about  . As soon as you open the walls, you're in danger again. You can make as much immigration/visa/whatever laws (= firewall rules) as you wish, it will always be a footrace with the crackers (= terrorists). You may block some attacks. But others still will hit you hard.
To exterminate terrorism to 99% (100% is impossible in most cases), you need both: Working anti terrorism laws and stopping to make others hate you. Your country does well on the first condition, but poorly on the other.
What concerns French laws, I stand corrected.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sava
If my hometown, Chicago, gets nuked... I will do everything in my power... everything humanly possible, to nuke Mecca. I will buy uranium on the black market, give myself cancer building a bomb, just to set it off in the Muslim holy city. I will make it my life's work to help hunt down the terrorists. I might even join the army. |
And this, gentlemen, is how Isreal and Palestine got into the mess they're in.
You simply can't make things better by going and killing a ton of civilians on the other side. You only enflame anger and make it harder to create a real difference. Proposing to nuke Mecca is punishing a population that isn't at fault for the crimes of another. In fact, this is one of the few things where you can really make a comparison to Nazi Germany and the treatment of the Jews. Death rights can certainly be similar if you nuke a major city, and you are blaming problems on those that are not responsible and killing said unresponsible group en masse.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
But many of the big ones do. |
Rather, a number of big ones do and we aren't helping the ones not directly related to us; for when we support crappy governments it doesn't help them overcome their own crappy governments.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by muxec
Patriot Act is really good and democratic. Israel lives under much stricter version of Patriot Act and people agree that even stricter security is needed. Indeed some people say that Shabak's (General Security Services Agency) rights most be limited but most agree that curent situation is OK. |
Oh, right...and they're doing really well. I mean, we only give them a third or so of their GDP every year for free, right? And they live and a peaceful and safe country thanks to those policies, right?
What, they don't? Drat.
I guess we can't look to any country in Europe for help, afterall Briton, for example, has been absolutely destroyed by IRA and cowed to its every whim. What's that? It didn't you say....drat.
quote:
Originally posted by muxec
The only way to do so is exterminating several groups of others. Muslim fanatics will always hate USA for richness, for atheism, for democracy, for existance itself. |
But you acknowledge they are not immortal. Sons and daughters do not have to follow mothers and fathers, nor are the latter bound to their current beliefs and feelings inexorably. People and groups can change.
Additionally, the vast majority of Muslims are not fanatics, and reject the teachings of terrorism.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
Oh, btw, to the best of my Knowledge the privacy violating sections of the Patriot Act which affect U.S. citizens have not helped to catch a terrorist yet, but have been used to go after U.S. Citizens for domestic issues.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Immortal Wombat
|
 |
in perpetuity
Dec 2000
time: 05:18
|
|
If AQ do have one nuke, then they probably want to keep mentioning it as often as they can, scare the crap out of people, put the intels on their guard, and then not use it. Once everyone starts thinking "oh, they're just bullshitting, they dont have nuclear capacity", then you use if, to get even greater effect.
A coastal city would be easiest to hit, obviously, and if you want a mid-west city, Chicago is probably a good target. If they do go inland, then the best reason for that is radio-activating a water supply. Drop a nuke at the head of the Missouri and you've ****ed up a lot of the heart of America.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Sava
The Islamic world is to blame if this happens. Islamic terrorism is a teenager living in their house. It's their mess. If my family (which lives in Chicago) is killed by a nuke detonated by Islamic terrorists, the entire Muslim world must be punished for not cleaning up their mess.
I know it's nice to be all civilized and have enlightened liberal views, but when it affects me directly in the sense that my family is threatened, all bets are off... the gloves come off.
Maybe if terrorists nuke your family, you'll feel the way I do. |
Right, so I guess the next time someone is put on Death Row, their entire family should join them, right? I mean, their immediate family, anyhow. That's sure to promote the rest of the family to act reasonable and rational and try to strive for peace.
The sort of actions you are proposing are suicide in the long term. They only have blood-thirsty appeal going for them in the short-term. As a pragmatist, I do not care for strategies that simply won't stop terrorism, and will in fact only increase the levels of violence.
So, no, I wouldn't feel the way you do if terrorists killed my family. It is the same if a serial killer killed everyone in my family and my fiance', I wouldn't start advocating the Death Penalty either*. Neither is a pragmatic way to deal with the situation, and it only blurs what is going on and marks it harder to stop future problems.
Letting anger control you and dictate your actions does not constructively solve a problem. You can channel your anger to productive solutions however, which is a much better way to deal with it.
-Drachasor
*The Death Penalty costs more money than life imprisonment because of the endless appeals, and it is quite probable that innocents have been killed by the Death Penalty.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Zulu Elephant
|
|
...oh and Chechnya
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by muxec
Yet. It's better to oversecure than collect human bits to plastic bags. |
"Those who sacrifice essential freedom for security deserve neither." -Benjamin Franklin
I don't support destroying the freedoms that we need to have an open society, even if it does save a few lives in the short run. In the long run it will make things worse.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Drachasor
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Zulu Elephant
...oh and Chechnya |
Or even setting an example about valuing human life and standing up for what is right by sending some troops into Suddan to stop the ethnic cleansing.
*sigh*
We are looked upon as hypocrits in the Arab world because our foreign policy is *often* hypocritical with the values we esposue. A consequence of the standard lack of concern the average American has for our foreign affairs.
-Drachasor
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Tattila the Hun
|
 |
Tornio
Oct 2002
time: 07:18
|
|
Isn't it US policy to retaliate to attack by WMD's by WMD's, IOW, nukes?
(I think it was redone a while back, to allow first strikes with WMD's, tho...)
If an US city is nuked, and US nukes the perpetrators homecity/cities, don't you think that might just prevent further attacks?
"If you attack us, we'll kill... you... all... Every family member, every neighbour, every man, woman, child. We'll make your entire city inhabitable for years to come... Now let me ask you, punk, is it worth it?"
Hey, anybody know, how the 80 virgins in paradise for martyrs work? Do they get stocked with new virgins as old one's get used, or are the used ones re-virginized? Or is it a one time deal, once you use up the 80, that's it. You'll have to do with 80 non-virgins. And are those virgins just created for that one purpose? Do they have hopes, dreams? I'm somewhat confused about the value of such deal, in itself...
Popping virgins is a messy business. I'd rather have women with a bit of experience...
On the long run, it might be fun. But what if you get bored of the same virgins day after day? Can you swap them with other martyrs?
I want to see this in writing, before I commit myself. 
Oh, wait, I quess it's for muslims only. 
What do atheists get? 
Last edited by Tattila the Hun on 16-11-2004 at 01:35
|
|
| |
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:18.
Apolyton Time is 00:18. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
15-11-2004 23:09
|