16-11-2004 22:37									#31
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Hey, before you know it, people will be blaming Bush because Americans are choosing to buy more trucks and SUVs and fewer cars. It's all Bush's fault, y'know?

	16-11-2004 22:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The US presidency is a very weak institution.

Constitutionally, maybe. Since Wilson, however, our Presidents have been extremely powerful.

	16-11-2004 22:38									#33
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I'm learning to ignore all these ignorant nay-sayers, DanS

	16-11-2004 22:41									#34
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Hey, before you know it, people will be blaming Bush because Americans are choosing to buy more trucks and SUVs and fewer cars. It's all Bush's fault, y'know?

So the recession was Clinton's fault, as was the internet bubble bursting, yet today, the Presidency is too weak an institution to affect economic outcomes?



This is whats so dangerous about Bush and his supporters. There's precisely zero accountibility.

	16-11-2004 22:41									#35
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quote: Originally posted by VJ Correct me if I'm wrong here, but: Stocks are parts of a corporation. If inflation occurs, and the absolute value of the corporation stays the same, the stock price goes up along with inflation.

The value of a corporation is determined by it's stock price. There is little, if any, data to support the claim that stock prices increase with inflation. In fact, stocks didn't do well in the 70s.

	16-11-2004 22:41									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I'm learning to ignore all the fact, DanS

	16-11-2004 22:42									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Japher I'm learning to ignore all these ignorant nay-sayers, DanS

You're learning to ignore anyway. That only makes you ignorant.

	16-11-2004 22:44									#39
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The US presidency is a very weak institution. Many people outside the US don't realize this fact. And this doesn't even bring out the fact that economic actors (companies, individuals) make most of the economic decisions in the US. The US isn't like France.

I would be prepared to accept that, but I am deeply confused by people who, ceaselessly, credit the President with all good things happening in the economy, such as GNP growth, creation of jobs, etc.

	16-11-2004 22:44									#40
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quote: So the recession was Clinton's fault, as was the internet bubble bursting, yet today, the Presidency is too weak an institution to affect economic outcomes?

It wasn't Clinton's fault. I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking. He could have made it less likely to happen by lowering taxes in his second term.

But ask yourself whether Clinton had much to do with the internet equities bubble. I certainly don't think he did.

	16-11-2004 22:46									#41
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quote: I would be prepared to accept that, but I am deeply confused by people who, ceaselessly, credit the President with all good things happening in the economy, such as GNP growth, creation of jobs, etc.

The US president is either the whipping boy or the golden boy of the country. He's praised or blamed for the state of the economy, but he has little control over it. There are lots of political ramifications, so I choose to focus on those.

	16-11-2004 22:46									#42
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Well, maybe not precisely zero. But almost zero. Bush's deficits may be pushing this a tenth of a percent or less. Most of the remaining is energy price increases over which Bush's role in pricing is extremely limited.

Remember how you were bragging about Bush not tapping the strategic Petroleum reserve? I'd say timely additions of reserved crud to the market would help smooth out spikes in oil prices and that would help lower the rate of inflation on energy prices.

	16-11-2004 22:48									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The president is either the whipping boy or the golden boy of the country. He's praised or blamed for the state of the economy, but he has little control over it.

He has an aweful lot of control over the long term health of the economy. Running deficits, raising or lower taxes, regulating just about every type of economic activity imaginable, deciding on unemployment benifits, subsidies & trade barriers, etc...

	16-11-2004 22:48									#44
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Since Al Gore invinted the internet I think he must be the reason that we had it so good during the .com era. Then when Bush came in, everything feel apart (not really, but we'll say that is when it happened because it makes us feel special).

Also, 911 occured on his watch (maybe right as he started the watch and had to deal with a poorly set up national defense system that everyone else never bothered to do anything about, but lets not mention that it makes us feel special)

Almost everytime someone attacks Bush there is a big caveat associated with it that they just care to ignore. Thus, I am doing likewise.

	16-11-2004 22:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT I would be prepared to accept that, but I am deeply confused by people who, ceaselessly, credit the President with all good things happening in the economy, such as GNP growth, creation of jobs, etc.

I think the rule of thumb is the president can only be attributed to economic policy when he lowers taxes, or gets a lucky break. Otherwise, especially if he's republican, its out of his hands.

	16-11-2004 22:50									#46
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Oerdin: I think it was a wise choice. He is the first president not to play political games with the reserve. By not releasing the reserves, he allowed market actors to benefit from their good planning that made them able to serve the market at a high price point. Over time, rewarding this good planning will decrease volatility and lower prices.

	16-11-2004 22:50									#47
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The president does have a lot of power, just not as much as some people think.

Take Carter for example. In 79 he told us that inflation was our responsibility, giving people the impression that the govt wouldn't do anything about it. People started selling dollars like crazy. The Fed had to cut the money supply drastically and it resulted in the the deepest recession since the Depression.

The president has a lot of power over peoples expectations.

	16-11-2004 22:52									#48
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I hate Bush as much as the next guy, but this isn't Bush's fault and its not a very worrying sort of inflation. Its just a short-term spike in energy prices (which have since dropped) hitting producers. And as the original article said there's very little core inflation, just some spikes in volatile commodities...

	16-11-2004 22:52									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The US president is either the whipping boy or the golden boy of the country. He's praised or blamed for the state of the economy, but he has little control over it.

I fully agree, and I regret that no politician will ever acknowledge that.

*Puisque ces mystères nous dépassent, feignons d'en être les organisateurs*

	16-11-2004 22:53									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Remember how you were bragging about Bush not tapping the strategic Petroleum reserve? I'd say timely additions of reserved crud to the market would help smooth out spikes in oil prices and that would help lower the rate of inflation on energy prices.

Those reserves are actually kind of silly. There's no way they can have any effect on prices. The more they dump the more OPEC will cut back.

	16-11-2004 22:53									#51
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quote: He has an aweful lot of control over the long term health of the economy. Running deficits, raising or lower taxes, regulating just about every type of economic activity imaginable, deciding on unemployment benifits, subsidies & trade barriers, etc...

Ummm, all of those things are the purview of the congress, not the president. You would do well to remember the words "dead on arrival."

	16-11-2004 22:56									#52
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Question: Did Bush have no choice other than to run an all time high, record smashing deficit? And to launch two wars, and to lower taxes all the while? Or was all this out of his hands too?

	16-11-2004 23:01									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Those reserves are actually kind of silly. There's no way they can have any effect on prices. The more they dump the more OPEC will cut back.

It seems that the mere existence of the reserves has an effect on the speculation which permanently observes their variations, and consequently on the price.

	16-11-2004 23:01									#54
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Here's a good way to edit that question: Did the congress have no choice other than to run all time high, record smashing deficits at the suggestion of the president? And to give Bush the overwhelming authority and funding to launch two wars, and to lower taxes all the while?

	16-11-2004 23:03									#55
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The strategic reserves should have no impact on the price of oil in normal trading. The stocks are there for an emergency, not a rainy day.

	16-11-2004 23:04									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT It seems that the mere existence of the reserves has an effect on the speculation which permanently observes their variations, and consequently on the price.

Are you joking? The reserves are never used. Why would anyone speculate?

	16-11-2004 23:05									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The strategic reserves should have no impact on the price of oil in normal trading. The stocks are there for an emergency, not a rainy day.

More like subsidies.

	16-11-2004 23:05									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Here's a good way to edit that question: Did the congress have no choice other than to run all time high, record smashing deficits at the suggestion of the president? And to give Bush the overwhelming authority and funding to launch two wars, and to lower taxes all the while?

Because truly the President, the most visible political figure by far in U.S. politics, promising to use authority wisely* and invested with a great deal of popular support from 9/11 has little or no influence on Congress.

Right....

Well, do you at least agree that what Bush is pushing for is bad for the economy, or are you going to deny that too?

-Drachasor

*Which he didn't do

	16-11-2004 23:07									#59
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The strategic reserves should have no impact on the price of oil in normal trading. The stocks are there for an emergency, not a rainy day.

Right, because using them to help keep oil prices from getting to high and damaging the economy when there is no war in sight is a horrible thing.

Clinton was just being pragmatic.

-Drachasor

	16-11-2004 23:13									#60
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What is your argument here, Drachasor? You haven't stated it so far.