16-11-2004 23:35									#61
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quote: Originally posted by DanS What is your argument here, Drachasor? You haven't stated it so far.

Do I have to spell it out?

You are completely ignoring the political clout the President has. You act like it is all the fault of the Congress, and don't blame anything on Bush, who in fact proposed many of these agendas. Of course, that means you ignore the relevent issues regarding how Bush had a huge amount of political capital thanks to 9/11 and used a good part of it to get his agendas through.

Apparently you also only want to hint at how you think Bush's platform doesn't make economic sense and avoid blatantly admitting it.

-Drachasor

	16-11-2004 23:43									#62
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quote: You are completely ignoring the political clout the President has.

Yes, but clout is another thing entirely. It's not as if these legislators are there to do the president's bidding. They are elected separately and therefore have a separate mandate. If the president proposes stupid stuff, the congress is obliged to ignore him. Even if the president proposes good stuff, he is most often ignored and the congress puts up its own proposals.

quote: Of course, that means you ignore the relevent issues regarding how Bush had a huge amount of political capital thanks to 9/11 and used a good part of it to get his agendas through.

The president doesn't vote on legislation, however. He is not responsible for these votes. Each legislator is responsible for his own vote. Further, the president might draft legislation, but it would be a misunderstanding of the process to think that the bill on final passage will be much like the first draft.

quote: Apparently you also only want to hint at how you think Bush's platform doesn't make economic sense and avoid blatantly admitting it.

Bush's platform makes broad good economic sense. I don't know what you were reading into my posts. The only complaint I have with the platform is that the deficit should be retired completely this term rather than merely halved.

	17-11-2004 00:03									#63
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quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT The price of energy for the US is aggravated by the weakness of the $. The weakness of the $ is caused by the state of the US.

Agreed to a point. Inflation is where prices broadly increase, not just the price of one commodity. We are not seeing a strong uptick in inflation. But we are seeing an uptick in the price of oil that is exacerbated by the weak dollar.

The weak dollar seems to reflect a growing money supply vis-a-vis other currencies. That may in fact be caused by the deficit.

It looks like it is time to reign in the high spending Democrats in Congress.

	17-11-2004 00:09									#64
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@ Ned.

Yeah, clearly. It's those damned Dems (who haven't controlled Congress since, what, 1994?).

-Arrian

	17-11-2004 00:26									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Are you joking? The reserves are never used. Why would anyone speculate?

The US Strategic Petroleum Reserves had declined below 600 barrels in 1999. It was then decided to increase them to their statutory maximum of 750 millions barrels. Trey reach 600 Millions B. in may 2003, and are still moving up.

The reserves are never used does not mean that they dont move; and when something is moving it can have an effect on the speculation.

	17-11-2004 00:37									#66
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Bush's platform makes broad good economic sense. I don't know what you were reading into my posts. The only complaint I have with the platform is that the deficit should be retired completely this term rather than merely halved.

Sure, and they could eliminate the debt while they are at it!

Bush isn't going to halve the deficit, there is no room in his platform of more spending and more tax cuts for anything but an increase. For you to say that makes economic sense and to think that it can actually eliminate the debt is ridiculous.

-Drachasor

	17-11-2004 00:40									#67
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Yes, but clout is another thing entirely. It's not as if these legislators are there to do the president's bidding. They are elected separately and therefore have a separate mandate. If the president proposes stupid stuff, the congress is obliged to ignore him. Even if the president proposes good stuff, he is most often ignored and the congress puts up its own proposals. .... The president doesn't vote on legislation, however. He is not responsible for these votes. Each legislator is responsible for his own vote. Further, the president might draft legislation, but it would be a misunderstanding of the process to think that the bill on final passage will be much like the first draft.

You grossly underestimate the President's power and clout in American politics. While not theoretically invalid, your position is simply not how the system works.

The President has so much political power over Congress because he is by far the most visible figure in American politics and is viewed as the leader of the nation. This means that he can do a lot of unpleasent things to people trying to get re-elected, especially if he has a massively high popularity rating. Hence he does have a lot of power in Congress, pretending otherwise is just that: pretending.

-Drachasor

	17-11-2004 00:53									#68
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quote: You grossly underestimate the President's power and clout in American politics.

I think you're confusing clout with power. They are two different things.

I'll stick by my guns.

	17-11-2004 01:04									#69
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I contend that most of this inflation is caused by two things. 1) the weakness of the dollar 2) the rise in oil & gas prices. Do most people agree?

	17-11-2004 01:08									#70
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Oerdin,

Sure. What do you think the causes of 1 and 2 are?

	17-11-2004 01:36									#71
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Drachssor, none of what you said refutes anything DanS said.

We all agree the president has these powers, and that these powers are not powerful.

	17-11-2004 01:56									#72
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Ok, so when the US posts 350,000 jobs gained, you thank Bush. But when things go sour, its out of his control?

Come on guys. Even you must see the inconsistency with this...

quote: We all agree the president has these powers, and that these powers are not powerful.

That sounds like a contradiction to me...

	17-11-2004 02:07									#73
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This man says that the US has a strong dollar policy.

Attachment: images.jpg
This has been downloaded 60 time(s).

	17-11-2004 02:13									#74
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Spin in *everything.*

Spin is power, and the President is constantly in the public eye in ways that senators only wish and dream for.

Because the President has a 24/7 public pulpit to preach from (literally, in the case of FundyBoy Bush), his powers are both real and vast.

Why do you suppose the stock market dips or surges in tandem with scandals that rock the presidency, but when your local congressman sleeps with a 14 year old boy or somesuch, there's nary a blip on the stock market's radar?

The only person who has a more potent, direct impact on the econ is the chairman of the Fed, who is, for these purposes, God's First Cousin.

-=Vel=-

	17-11-2004 02:16									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Proteus_MST If I had 30.298.840.935 Million Dollars, I would buy the USA and fire Bush as CEO. 30 Quadrillion Dollars should be enough to do this and still have cash for some other decent countries to buy

If you had that many dollars the value of the dollar would plummet and you still wouldn't have the wealth required to outright purchase the US.

	17-11-2004 02:35									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I contend that most of this inflation is caused by two things. 1) the weakness of the dollar 2) the rise in oil & gas prices. Do most people agree?

I agree with your definition which is also agreed by Kidicious.

This is enough for your question being answered *yes*.

	17-11-2004 02:39									#77
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quote: Ok, so when the US posts 350,000 jobs gained, you thank Bush. But when things go sour, its out of his control?

No, you blame the previous guy, when you can.

	17-11-2004 02:45									#78
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So you're just a partisan hack, Dan. I didn't used to think you were.

-Arrian

	17-11-2004 02:47									#79
	Tired of ads?

I don't think the president makes much difference on any of this stuff, but I'll be damned if my guy isn't going to take political advantage of rising fortunes, if he's going to be blamed for misfortunes.

	17-11-2004 02:53									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian So you're just a partisan hack, Dan. I didn't used to think you were. -Arrian

We're all partisan hacks. It comes with the genes.

	17-11-2004 02:54									#81
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not me

	17-11-2004 03:24									#83
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quote: I think you're confusing clout with power. They are two different things.

You owe me a new pair of jeans, because I just p****d myself at that.

	17-11-2004 03:50									#84
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT

What?

	17-11-2004 03:53									#85
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I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party.

	17-11-2004 05:33									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I contend that most of this inflation is caused by two things. 1) the weakness of the dollar 2) the rise in oil & gas prices. Do most people agree?

Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods, not by the rise the price of one commodity out of many. The fact that that commodity is purchased from abroad might actually be deflationary as it sucks money out of the US economy, decreasing the amount of money chasing goods in the US.

The Fed can fight inflation by raising interest rates which helps to choke off the rate money expands. The government can help by reducing the deficit.

	17-11-2004 05:34									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the Communist Party.

Is that a detail?

	17-11-2004 10:28									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Ned The Fed can fight inflation by raising interest rates which helps to choke off the rate money expands. The government can help by reducing the deficit.

And you still don't think Bush is responsible for the shape we're in - and going to be heading into?

	17-11-2004 12:45									#89
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn And you still don't think Bush is responsible for the shape we're in - and going to be heading into?

Hell, it isn't like he is in charge of some group of people that control the Congress. It isn't like he can make some sort of list of positions on issues and expect them to be carried out.

Heck, it isn't like the President has any political or other influence on the Congress at all. They are all totally disconnected from him and the vast media prowess he possesses.

[/sarcasm]

-Drachasor

	17-11-2004 13:28									#90
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quote: Because the President has a 24/7 public pulpit to preach from (literally, in the case of FundyBoy Bush), his powers are both real and vast.

I guess you weren't paying attention when Kerry gave stump speeches from the pulpit for 5 consecutive Sundays before the election...