18-11-2004 04:34									#31
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Mark my words this will come back to bite the Republicans on the ass some day. They want to act petty because they are the current big shots but one day the Democrats will win a majority and then it will be the Republicans who whine about unfairness.

It's to bad the current majority leader is such a partisan hack who is willing to harm our nation over petty politics.

	18-11-2004 04:34									#32
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quote: Filibustering is an abuse of parliamentary procedure to give the minority effective veto power over all legislation

No it isn't. It's a way of forcing compromise and moderation. The idea is that one side has to find enough of the other side to support it so that it can get stuff done.

It's necessary for judicial appointments. You forget that many people on both sides are moderates, they should prevail because they represent mainstream thinking. It's better for the country to find candidates that don't veer to the extreme.

	18-11-2004 04:36									#33
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i dont think this will happen just because it'll come back to hurt the GOP one day. we're not talking about short-sighted idiots here

	18-11-2004 04:37									#34
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quote: Mark my words this will come back to bite the Republicans on the ass some day. They want to act petty because they are the current big shots but one day the Democrats will win a majority and then it will be the Republicans who whine about unfairness.

It could create major problems. The extreme wing of the GOP seem to be going all out to get rid of Roe v. Wade. Have they ever thought about the consequences of doing this?

	18-11-2004 04:38									#35
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Agreed. Only a short sighted idiot would put in rules which will surely be used against his own party one day.

	18-11-2004 04:39									#36
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Why didn't they challenge it's constitutionality back when they were using it so effectively? They suddenly made great strides in consitutional scholarship since winning the elction?

Don't try to disguise this as anything but the usual bald-faced power grab.

actually, UNusual. Almost all democaracies have rules for filibusters to prevent mob rule and senates are supposed to be the chamber of 'sober second thought' in all bi-cameral systems.

What has changed so much that the ancient American electoral system is just fine, but equally ancient democratic procedures shared by almost all real democracies are suddenly right now not fine?? After hundreds of years?

	18-11-2004 04:41									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer we're not talking about short-sighted idiots here

Wait, I thought we were talking about Republicans?

	18-11-2004 04:42									#38
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Yeah, I doubt this happens. The Republicans filibusted many more judges under Clinton than Bush has had judges filibustered. When the Dems come back in power, the judges they appoint could really screw over Republicans (such gay judges in Southern states, who would undoubtably rule that laws against gay marraige violate the Constitution).

	18-11-2004 04:42									#39
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yeah the republicans sure are short-sighted... that whole freeing the slaves thing was so ignorant.

	18-11-2004 04:45									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer yeah the republicans sure are short-sighted... that whole freeing the slaves thing was so ignorant.

They aren't the same party as the one that freed the slaves. That whole pandering to racism thing killed Black support for the GOP seventy years ago, and all the Dixiecrats joined the GOP. Today's GOP is the spiritual decendent of the 19th Century Democratic Party.

	18-11-2004 04:47									#41
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The problem is that almost all the extremists are on the Republican side. You don't see many democrats that are really radical. Kucinich is about the only one I can think of and a lot of the stuff he says would place him as a centrist in many other countries. The radical left have no real presence in government.

On the other hand you have a lot of Republicans who are absolutely rabid gay-hating fundamentalists. How on earth did Santorum ever get elected?

Rush Limbaugh is mainstream to many of these people. They went after Clinton like attack dogs. Some Democrats really don't like Bush but I have yet to see them behave like the Republicans did towards Clinton.

	18-11-2004 04:50									#42
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chegitz:

The Republican party from Lincoln on has been dominated completely by fundamentalist Protestants and business interests. what has changed?

	18-11-2004 04:52									#43
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Agathon:

quote: How on earth did Santorum ever get elected?

Santorum reps PISTOLVANIA!

	18-11-2004 04:54									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer what has changed?

They became openly racist.

	18-11-2004 04:55									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The extreme wing of the GOP seem to be going all out to get rid of Roe v. Wade. Have they ever thought about the consequences of doing this?

Well, the political centre would move back eighty years and make the repeal of the 19th Amendment a moderate idea.

	18-11-2004 04:58									#46
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quote: They became openly racist.

the chickens come home to roost

	18-11-2004 05:03									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How on earth did Santorum ever get elected?

Sexually repressed rightwingers think santorum is kinky.

	18-11-2004 05:03									#48
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the republicans are also scheeming to allow the house majority leader to keep his job even if he is convicted of a crime. its on the news right now

	18-11-2004 05:05									#49
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I saw that. Lovely.

	18-11-2004 05:15									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Sexually repressed rightwingers think santorum is kinky.

Santorum equals the froathy mix of feces, lube, spermicide, and **** that result from anal sex. That's what happens when you equate gays with people who commit beastiality. They name something really nasty after you.

	18-11-2004 05:16									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia the republicans are also scheeming to allow the house majority leader to keep his job even if he is convicted of a crime. its on the news right now

Are you ready for a revolution yet, comrade?

	18-11-2004 05:23									#52
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Santorum equals the froathy mix of feces, lube, spermicide, and **** that result from anal sex. That's what happens when you equate gays with people who commit beastiality. They name something really nasty after you.

That was kinda the point.

	18-11-2004 05:26									#53
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The chauvinistic arrogance of some Republicans is really shining through now.


They want to change one of the rules of our government to give them an unfair advantage by reducing the number to what would guarantee them freedom from checks and balances.

	18-11-2004 05:48									#54
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Agathon

quote: Filibustering is an abuse of parliamentary procedure to give the minority effective veto power over all legislation

No it isn't. It's a way of forcing compromise and moderation. The idea is that one side has to find enough of the other side to support it so that it can get stuff done.[/q]

That doesn't conflict with my point at all.

	18-11-2004 05:49									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Seeker Why didn't they challenge it's constitutionality back when they were using it so effectively?

Why do you think?

	18-11-2004 05:49									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon The problem is that almost all the extremists are on the Republican side. You don't see many democrats that are really radical. Kucinich is about the only one I can think of and a lot of the stuff he says would place him as a centrist in many other countries.

That really says some sad things about those other countries.

	18-11-2004 05:50									#57
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I believe that filibustering is legitimate when used reasonably -- for Republicans and Democrats.

	18-11-2004 05:50									#58
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quote: Are you ready for a revolution yet, comrade?

always!

	18-11-2004 05:51									#59
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Yeah, filibustering is anti-democratic. So is the Senate, Kuci. Let's abolish that too. And I can't vote for California's representative, that's not democratic... we should have an at-large election for every US representative.

	18-11-2004 05:54									#60
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We should have PR in the House. The Senate is undemocratic, yes, but at least it was intended to be precisely that way. How can you claim continuing to talk for hours on end solely so that a bill cannot come to a vote not abuse of parliamentary procedure?