18-11-2004 04:04									#1
	Republicans: We Will NOT Tolerate blocking Bush's Nominees, The End of Fillibusters? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: SENATE LEADERSHIP Frist To Go 'Nuclear' On Nominations By John Stanton Senate Majority Leader Frist today is expected to give his blessing to a GOP plan to dramatically change the Senate's voting rules -- effectively eliminating Democrats' ability to filibuster President Bush's judicial nominees, aides said Tuesday. Democratic leadership sources warned that a move to reduce from 60 to 51 the number of votes needed to end a filibuster of judicial nominees would be considered a declaration of war by most Democrats, could further weaken the position of the chamber's shrinking population of moderates and almost certainly would create new obstacles for the GOP's agenda. During a closed-door meeting of the GOP Conference today, Frist will inform his colleagues that while the so-called "nuclear option" of changing Senate rules will be reserved as a last resort, Republicans will no longer tolerate Democratic efforts to block Bush's nominees to the federal bench, an aide to Frist confirmed. According to this source, no immediate action on changing the rules is planned. Frist will wait for the next floor debate on a contested Bush appointee. During that process, he will attempt to negotiate with Democrats and pursue any and all options to break the deadlock. Assuming those overtures fail, Frist would then ask the presiding officer of the Senate to rule on the 60-vote requirement. The presiding officer would then find that only a 51-vote majority is needed to end a filibuster in the case of judicial nominees -- a finding to which Democrats would almost certainly object, forcing a vote on whether to overturn the ruling of the chair. But because Frist would only need 51 votes from his new 55 vote-majority to protect the decision, the majority leader believes he would have enough support within his Conference to impose the change. Although Frist came to his decision in an effort to speed the approval process of Bush's nominees, Democratic sources warned pursuing a rule change would almost certainly poison the already bitter atmosphere in the Senate and undermine the efforts of moderates in both parties to reduce tensions in the chamber. A bipartisan group of moderate lawmakers Tuesday held the first post-election meeting of the "Centrist Coalition" headed up by Sens. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., and Olympia Snowe, R-Maine. The group announced that Sens. George Voinovich, R-Ohio, and Ben Nelson, D-Neb., will serve as co-chairmen. The group's aim, according to Snowe, is to "help break the impasse on issues" moderates in both parties can agree are important to the nation as a whole. Lieberman told reporters, "What drives us together is the feeling that Congress has become too partisan." But use of the nuclear option on judges could kill those efforts before they ever begin. One source close to Democratic moderates warned, "If Frist starts playing games like this, you're going to see more and more of us say, 'Well, [forget] him.'" A Democratic leadership source agreed, predicting a change to the rules might galvanize Senate Democrats of all stripes while emboldening progressive elements within the party to become more aggressive in their opposition to the GOP. "Can you imagine what a guy like [Sen. Tom] Harkin will do?" the leadership source asked of the populist Democrat from Iowa.

The far-right Republicans continue to show their hatred of democracy and their love of one-party rule.

	18-11-2004 04:06									#3
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Well, can't the democrats fillibuser that proposal?

	18-11-2004 04:07									#4
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, can't the democrats fillibuser that proposal?

I hope so.

	18-11-2004 04:09									#5
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What will Mr. Smith do now?

	18-11-2004 04:10									#6
	Re: Republicans: We Will NOT Tolerate blocking Bush's Nominees, The End of Fillibusters? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by monkspider The far-right Republicans continue to show their hatred of democracy and their love of one-party rule.

Not to mention their love of their own hipocrasy. Who here remembers the Republicans filibustering Clinton many, many times?

	18-11-2004 04:12									#7
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So let me get this straight. Bush sends up 211 nominations and the Senate signs off on 201 of them but decides they don't like 10 out of 211 and Republicans are claiming that is a mass blocking? They need to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh and start doing some indendent thinking.

BTW it would also help for them to reread the Constitution especially the part about how the President's judicial nominees are to be "selected with the advice and consent of the Senate".

	18-11-2004 04:12									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer What will Mr. Smith do now?

Word.

Repugs

	18-11-2004 04:12									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Albert Speer What will Mr. Smith do now?

Go to Canada...

	18-11-2004 04:13									#10
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So wait, when the democrats throw every rule and technicality they can at preventing a vote, thats Democracy in action, but when the republicans force the senate to vote on nominees, thats totalitarian communism in action?

	18-11-2004 04:14									#11
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Whoha: That appears to be the Republican position.

	18-11-2004 04:15									#12
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quote: The far-right Republicans continue to show their hatred of democracy and their love of one-party rule.

How is being the majority party and trying to pass laws hatred of democracy?

	18-11-2004 04:16									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha So wait, when the democrats throw every rule and technicality they can at preventing a vote, thats Democracy in action, but when the republicans force the senate to vote on nominees, thats totalitarian communism in action?

Fillibustering keeps the majority from steamrolling the minority and so forces comprimise.

	18-11-2004 04:16									#14
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It does indeed, however, I don't give a rats ass about Gay Marriage and abortion, so the apointment of Bush's Nominees matters very little to me. Unless of course we can get some neat footage of people immolating themselves over it.

	18-11-2004 04:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Fillibustering keeps the majority from steamrolling the minority and so forces comprimise.

Filibustering is an abuse of parliamentary procedure to give the minority effective veto power over all legislation.

	18-11-2004 04:18									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Filibustering is an abuse of parliamentary procedure to give the minority effective veto power over all legislation.

It prevents Tyranny by Majority

	18-11-2004 04:20									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Fillibustering keeps the majority from steamrolling the minority and so forces comprimise.

However, we moved senator elections from the state legislature to direct, so we aren't in as credible a position to say that we don't have the Tyranny of the majority right now. Did the Democrats gain some state legislatures?

	18-11-2004 04:20									#18
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It is attempting to change 225 year old laws which guard fairness and balance in judicial nominees. The 2/3 rule is so that any nominee must be supported by the vast majority of senators but the Republicans want to change that so they can ram through any body they want no matter how extreme.

The Constitution says the senate is to advice the President on nominees and that all of the nominees must be approved by the senate. The 2/3 rule is a centuries old law which is designed to create more cooporation between parties and to assist in creating a group consensus.

	18-11-2004 04:23									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Odin It prevents Tyranny by Majority

That's what the constitution is for. It's absolutely worthless to have Congress otherwise; we might as well have each party nominate a representative and when they agree on something, it happens. It's retarded to give anyone an effective veto.

	18-11-2004 04:23									#20
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and that is a very legitimate position... the majority should be able to legislate their ideology.

	18-11-2004 04:24									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It is attempting to change 225 year old laws which guard fairness and balance in judicial nominees. The 2/3 rule is so that any nominee must be supported by the vast majority of senators but the Republicans want to change that so they can ram through any body they want no matter how extreme. The Constitution says the senate is to advice the President on nominees and that all of the nominees must be approved by the senate. The 2/3 rule is a centuries old law which is designed to create more cooporation between parties and to assist in creating a group consensus.

It is, however, a law, and it is the Senate prerogative to set its own rules. It even says so in the Constitution.

The Republicans are not acting out of bounds at all. In fact, the Constitutionality of the 2/3 rule itself could be challenged.

	18-11-2004 04:27									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker It is, however, a law, and it is the Senate prerogative to set its own rules. It even says so in the Constitution. The Republicans are not acting out of bounds at all. In fact, the Constitutionality of the 2/3 rule itself could be challenged.

The problem is that they are changing it out of petty politics, not for a legitimate reason.

	18-11-2004 04:30									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That's what the constitution is for. It's absolutely worthless to have Congress otherwise; we might as well have each party nominate a representative and when they agree on something, it happens. It's retarded to give anyone an effective veto.

It's not a veto in any way in any shape or in any form. You have to have 40% of the Senate all agree that something isn't good before you can have a filibuster. Do you know how hard it would be to maintain 40% of the senate on an issue? Do you realize how rare filibusters are because of this?

	18-11-2004 04:30									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Odin The problem is that they are changing it out of petty politics, not for a legitimate reason.

Does it matter, if there are legitimate reasons? (No)

	18-11-2004 04:30									#25
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when was the last time the GOP was pushing so many amendments (gay marriage, abortion, natural citizen presidents, etc.)? 1865?

	18-11-2004 04:31									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin It's not a veto in any way in any shape or in any form. You have to have 40% of the Senate all agree that something isn't good before you can have a filibuster. Do you know how hard it would be to maintain 40% of the senate on an issue? Do you realize how rare filibusters are because of this?

If it's difficult to get 40%, it's much more difficult to get 60%.

	18-11-2004 04:31									#27
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nm

	18-11-2004 04:32									#28
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I'm not defending Republicans. I think the rule never should've been there.

	18-11-2004 04:32									#29
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, can't the democrats fillibuser that proposal?

No. It only takes a simple majority to change house rules and the President of the Senate (Dick Cheney) can change the rules at a whim. The reason they don't want to do this is that it will allow the Democrats to do it once they return to a majority within the Senate, and payback could be a *****.

	18-11-2004 04:34									#30
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara payback could be a *****.