18-11-2004 05:59									#61
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Because it is INGRAINED as a part of parliamentary procedure. It's like saying tabling a bill is an abuse of parliamentary procedure even though it's been a parliamentary procedure rule for a long time. It doesn't make any sense to say a parliamentary procedure is an abuse of parliamentary procedure.

	18-11-2004 05:59									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker We should have PR in the House. The Senate is undemocratic, yes, but at least it was intended to be precisely that way. How can you claim continuing to talk for hours on end solely so that a bill cannot come to a vote not abuse of parliamentary procedure?

I say it's not abuse, because it provides a method for a minority to check the power of the majority within the legislature.

	18-11-2004 06:36									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker That really says some sad things about those other countries.

Yeah, they're really crying.

	18-11-2004 06:59									#64
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Did you ever read the Kucinich quote stefu had in his sig for a long time?

	18-11-2004 07:13									#65
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quote: A bipartisan group of moderate lawmakers Tuesday held the first post-election meeting of the "Centrist Coalition"

The beginning of a 3 party system???





On the issue: The 60 vote majority is a rule...not a law. The Senate sees fit to change rules often. Their is no Constitutional requirement for 60 votes to end a filabuster...in fact the constitution doesn't address the question of filabusters at all.

Presidential Judicial Nominee's need a vote. Up or Down. This was true in Clinton's time and it is true today.

	18-11-2004 07:28									#66
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO The beginning of a 3 party system??? On the issue: The 60 vote majority is a rule...not a law. The Senate sees fit to change rules often. Their is no Constitutional requirement for 60 votes to end a filabuster...in fact the constitution doesn't address the question of filabusters at all. Presidential Judicial Nominee's need a vote. Up or Down. This was true in Clinton's time and it is true today.

And it's only a coincidence that Republicans want to change the rule to fit the same number of seats that they happen to hold, huh?

	18-11-2004 07:44									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Do you realize how rare filibusters are because of this?

Very rare before 2001 in confirmation votes only two that I can find.

	18-11-2004 07:45									#68
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What's the source for this article, anyway?

	18-11-2004 07:47									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia the republicans are also scheeming to allow the house majority leader to keep his job even if he is convicted of a crime. its on the news right now

The Republicans are rewritting their own ethics rules to make sure this guy stays in power. Originally even being accussed of commiting an act of corruption meant the speaker had to step down but now Republicans are sauing it's ok to have a crook represent them as long as his a partisan crook.

	18-11-2004 07:54									#70
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO Presidential Judicial Nominee's need a vote. Up or Down. This was true in Clinton's time and it is true today.

Please explain why several of Clinton's judges were never voted on because Republican's filibustered. Geee, the hypocrates loved the filibuster then but they call it unfair when the tables are turned.

	18-11-2004 08:28									#71
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quote: So wait, when the democrats throw every rule and technicality they can at preventing a vote, thats Democracy in action, but when the republicans force the senate to vote on nominees, thats totalitarian communism in action?

quote: The problem is that they are changing it out of petty politics, not for a legitimate reason.

That's why they voted the rule in a decade ago.

quote: Fillibustering keeps the majority from steamrolling the minority and so forces comprimise.

Strange observation from a champion of democracy.

	18-11-2004 08:31									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Please explain why several of Clinton's judges were never voted on because Republican's filibustered. Geee, the hypocrates loved the filibuster then but they call it unfair when the tables are turned.

Please provide evidence to back that up. I can't recall a single one that was held up by filabuster...not one.

	18-11-2004 08:35									#73
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quote: And it's only a coincidence that Republicans want to change the rule to fit the same number of seats that they happen to hold, huh?

It's not a coincidence. It's not even true...

	18-11-2004 08:37									#74
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Retraction & apology:

I have found 2 cases of filibusters against Clinton nominees: one judicial and one to the FDIC.

Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 18-11-2004 at 09:12

	18-11-2004 08:40									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The Republicans are rewritting their own ethics rules

To exacctly what the democrats rules (its the internal party caucus rules in each case) have been all along and still are. Did you ever complain over the past dozens years or so about the democ-rats having the lower standard in their rules than the repugs? I do not think so.

	18-11-2004 08:51									#76
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Plato, how old are you? I'm suspecting you are young or else you'd likely remember these events.


http://www.nwlc.org/pdf/EstradaFilibuster2003.pdf

quote: As Senator Hatch said when other Senators were filibustering a Clinton Administration nomination to the Third Circuit in 1994, the filibuster is “one of the ...

http://www.dailykos.net/archives/002562.html

quote: Nevermind that this same party stymied years of Clinton's nominees, using an ever-shifting system of procedural rules to ensure the GOP-controlled Senate could prevent any Clinton nominee from ever seeing the light of day.

	18-11-2004 08:53									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Lefty Scaevola You lie. His were blocked by majority votes, usually in committee.

You, sir, are extremely ignorant. You need to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh and start paying attention to real news programs. You will become a better informed person.

	18-11-2004 08:55									#78
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The GOP did allow Clinton to get through a SC nominee similar to him ideolgoically in Ginsburg. If the Dems won't agree to the same, nuke 'em.

	18-11-2004 08:56									#79
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Oh, you didn't just quote Daily Kos as a source, did you? This is gonna be ugly...

	18-11-2004 08:57									#80
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That's fine. Just remember when its 2015 and the Dems are pushing through nominee after nomee that I told you checks and balances was the better way to go.

	18-11-2004 08:58									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Oh, you didn't just quote Daily Kos as a source, did you? This is gonna be ugly...

There were two sources and I can get others if you don't like that source.

	18-11-2004 08:58									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Plato, how old are you? I'm suspecting you are young or else you'd likely remember these events.

42.

I do remember that now that you mention it. I had forgotten. Thanks.

And I am forever young!

	18-11-2004 08:59									#83
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Never mind. You are much older then me.

	18-11-2004 09:00									#84
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quote: There were two sources and I can get others if you don't like that source.

Is Democratic Underground next on the list?

	18-11-2004 09:00									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Oh, you didn't just quote Daily Kos as a source, did you? This is gonna be ugly...

No..no. The source sucks and some of the facts are grossly distorted, but I do remember something like this.

	18-11-2004 09:07									#86
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I say damn the consequences, full speed ahead. A couple of Supreme Court appointments will more than pay for making the Democrats angry. Overturn Roe and save the kids and let the Democrats cry all the way to Canada. Please don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out...

	18-11-2004 09:13									#87
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Roe will never be overturned. It's a useless wish.

	18-11-2004 09:14									#88
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It's not like overturning Roe will save the kids anyway. Plenty of states will still allow abortion.

	18-11-2004 09:16									#89
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That's true as well.

	18-11-2004 09:16									#90
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Essentially packing the SCOTUS is what this is all about. Everyone knows one justice is dying and two more are very old so they're getting ready for the fight. With 201 out of 211 nominees already confirmed no reasonable person can really make a case that Democrats have been obstructing things just to obstruct Bush.

Of those remaining 10 serveral of them had Republicans objecting to their nominaation as well. But hell we don't want to let facts get in the way of tv sound bites or right wing talk radio.