19-11-2004 07:36									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Do you eat meat? Do you wear leather? Do you eat fish?

Wow Ming, I could really pwn this argument.

	19-11-2004 07:37									#32
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Alva, the 'control' argument is cr@p, they even introduce them into parts of Britain that don't have enough foxes to hunt.

I bet the foxes had a whale of a time in Oz, except for the Dingos they've got that niche to themselves

	19-11-2004 07:43									#33
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quote: Remote control rifle range debuts

That is absolutely disgusting.

I can see the h4xor little ***** queuing up already.
*sigh *

I can remember when I was a wee lad shooting my bb gun.
At some point I aimed at a bird that had landed in a tree nearby, my grandfather who at that point stood next to me said:" You can shoot it if you want to, however, if you hit it and it's not dead I do want you to kill it and not let it suffer".
Never did it again.

	19-11-2004 07:44									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Ever see a production chicken farm where the chicken lives it's entire life in a cage barely big enough to move in, only to become somebodies dinner...

I spent the afternoon at the farm actually, and still have the **** on my footwear to prove it. Chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese, among the birds. Not a one 'in a cage barely big enough to move in'. If you have a gripe with factory farms, then great. So do I. It doesn't have to be that way and not all farms are run that way. The humane farms are not.

quote: Face it... the animal is KILLED just so you can eat. You could eat something else... it's not like it's life and death for you... so spare me the high and mighty crap

Eating meat is a natural human thing to do. We've been doing it a very long time. Do we have to eat meat? Of course not. The point is the manner of the animals death. It is one thing to take an animal to be slaughtered (and yes, they are scared) and quite another to run it to the ground and rip it apart. The fact you won't make the distinction is quite frankly offensive.

quote: I will respect a persons opinion if they go all the way on the topic... but not just because they want to take a stand on a single issue and ignore the rest.

Glad you aren't running a farm. I assume you eat meat and/or wear leather, etc, therefor by your logic anything would be fair as far as animal treatment is concerned.

	19-11-2004 07:58									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Ever see a production chicken farm where the chicken lives it's entire life in a cage barely big enough to move in, only to become somebodies dinner...

That appears to be an ethnical question on the farm/factory's part Granted, the consumer may have enough knowledge to demand more humane treatment of these animals.

	19-11-2004 08:06									#36
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Wezil made the post I couldn't be bothered to make

	19-11-2004 08:13									#37
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Progress

	19-11-2004 08:56									#38
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It's a brutal and inhumane practice.

And Ming, we don't need to be complete Vegan nut jobs to respect that this is a barbaric and violent practice.

There's a large middle ground where people can eat meat and still despise the violent and bloody practice of fox hunting.

	19-11-2004 09:03									#39
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Wouldn't top my agenda, but still

Well done.

And at Ming who thinks the US is sooooo PC...

	19-11-2004 09:30									#40
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Wouldn't top my agenda, but still

thats pretty much my attitude, its not the worst thing happening in the world today, but it's still wrong.

	19-11-2004 09:37									#41
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Ming

	19-11-2004 10:11									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ming

It's got to be a good thing that *TWO* right-wing Americans agree with fox hunting, right?

I'd be worried otherwise....

	19-11-2004 10:26									#43
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Talk about a killer app!

	19-11-2004 11:25									#44
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Whats 'PC' about outlawing animals being chased to exhaustion and then ripped to pieces by a pack of dogs (who themselves are killed ~6 years old because they are too old for the 'sport')?

do you not know how nature works?

	19-11-2004 11:27									#45
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever This is just a personal thing, I don't wear leather or fur but I do eat chicken, fish, meat. My feeling is that animals shouldn't have to die for our amusement and/or vanity, I know its maybe a fine line to then say it's okay to eat them, but thats how I (and evidently The Queen) feel. I know people hunt animals but do you know how foxes are hunted? And wheres the 'end product'? Theres no food, no coat, just a dead fox. Killing for fun surely can't be right?

I'm against killing for fun. I don't know about fox hunting, I don't think we have that in the U.S. But peopel eat deer all the time. I had deer at my uncle's house once.

	19-11-2004 11:29									#46
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever How anyone can regard the above picture as 'fun' is beyond me. Anyhow, its going to be banned and the upper classes will have go back to other 'traditional' passtimes such as bear baiting, witch dunking and marrying your sister

It's fun for the dogs. That much, I can guarantee.

Do dogs not deserve to have fun?

	19-11-2004 11:34									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Do dogs not deserve to have fun?

It needed a

	19-11-2004 11:36									#48
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actually Fox hunting does seem barbaric. I don't think we do that in the U.S. I have never heard of it.

But deer hunting is okay. . the point is to bring the meat home and eat it- and to brag to all your friends how much of a man you are for killing an animal with a high powered rifle.

	19-11-2004 11:47									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident But deer hunting is okay. . the point is to bring the meat home and eat it- and to brag to all your friends how much of a man you are for killing an animal with a high powered rifle.

Real Men® hunt with spears, only wuzzes hunt with rifles

	19-11-2004 12:04									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Deer hunting with dogs, that is. Shooting them is ok*, only setting packs of dogs on them is banned.

Oh, pfft, that's fine then.

What's the point if you don't even get to shoot anything?

	19-11-2004 12:04									#51
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Since the fox's have no remaining natural preditors what's going to keep their population in check now? It will just go through boom and bust cycles as they over bred then starve then over bred then starve.

Face it hunting is good wild life management when humans have already removed all of the top preditors as they've done in the UK. Previously the wolves, bears, and big cats took care of the excess foxes but since they're gone people need to fill that role. PC rules like this are just stupid.

	19-11-2004 12:18									#52
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Then hunt them. No need to add torture to the equation.

	19-11-2004 12:42									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Since the fox's have no remaining natural preditors what's going to keep their population in check now?

Most species that have no natural enemies have a low population density. Most of these are top level predators such as the great white shark the polar bear. We are the glaring exception.

	19-11-2004 12:44									#54
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Species that are used to being in the middle of the food-chain and are suddenly thrust to the top don't tend to behave like top-level predators instantly.

	19-11-2004 14:07									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Since the fox's have no remaining natural preditors what's going to keep their population in check now? It will just go through boom and bust cycles as they over bred then starve then over bred then starve. Face it hunting is good wild life management when humans have already removed all of the top preditors as they've done in the UK. Previously the wolves, bears, and big cats took care of the excess foxes but since they're gone people need to fill that role. PC rules like this are just stupid.

I agree. And I disagree that there is something wrong with hunting ("killing for fun"). We have hunting deep in our genes (since well before we evolved into modern humans) and our culture. This ritual activity scratches that itch and gives those who participate in it a reminder of where we came from. Of course the masses who like in concrete boxes and for whom animals are just so many pets are ignorant of this, and sure that their numerical superiorty equates to moral superiority use forces of armed men to impose their will upon the primitives. How very enlightened.

	19-11-2004 14:10									#56
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Btw, I saw a beautiful red fox last night in the parking lot here where I work. It was only about 10 feet away when I emerged, and I'm good at not panicking animals, so I got a good long look at it as is trotted across the parking lot for cover.


edit:



I stepped outside for a cig after writing this and a four point buck came ambling down the sidewalk. He crossed the street to avoid me and headed into the neighborhood to feed on someone's garden.

Last edited by Sikander on 19-11-2004 at 14:23

	19-11-2004 14:42									#57
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They're banning hunting with hounds, they're not banning hunting with guns by licensed professionals to keep the population in check. Slightly more humane way of killing things.

	19-11-2004 14:44									#58
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Queen
Fox (the animal)
Fox (the "news"-channel)

	19-11-2004 14:47									#59
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Foxy ladies.

	19-11-2004 15:10									#60
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What is so inhumane about animals eating other animals? Hello, dogs are carnivores.