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Jon Miller
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Not true at all. Radiation affects everybody, while the virgin birth... what virgin birth? |
But people have no need of understanding it. And most people don't.
Jon Miller
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Comrade Tassadar
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No. Why would it?
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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
If correct, this confirms to everone that Americans are complete idiots  |
As if we didn't know...
http://www.romankoch.ch/lachhaft/stupidamericans.htm
Some excerpts:
American lawsuits:
"In another example, a man in Virginia has filed a lawsuit against a hospital for not reattaching his hand after he lopped it off, believing it to be possessed by the devil. He claims that the doctors should have known he was mental and that they should have put his hand back on."
Some cool American laws.
"In St. Louis, it's illegal to sit on the curb of any city street and drink beer from a bucket."
"Horses are forbidden to eat fire hydrants in Marshalltown, Iowa."
"Newcastle, Wyoming - Couples are prohibited from having sex in a butcher's walk-in freezer."
"In Seattle, Washington, it is illegal to carry a concealed weapon that is over six feet in length."
"In Tennessee, it is illegal to shoot any game other than whales from a moving automobile."
"Harthahorne, Oklahoma City Ordinance, Section 363, states that it shall be unlawful to put any hypnotized person in a display window."
And Dan Quayle
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
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nostromo
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Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:18
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I don't think people who believe in God are all stupid. After all, Newton and Einstein were definitely not stupid. And a lot of atheists are stupid also. However, fundies are another matter. They are simple folks, with simple minds. So when they talks about complex issues like God and evolution, they can say dumb things. For example, I heard fundies claim that homosexuality, drug abuse, communism, pornography are all a consequence of evolution!!! Hence we shouldn't teach evolution!  They don't seem to be aware that the synthetic theory of evolution is not compatible with communism on certain issues. For example, the URSS rejected mendelian genetics. Otoh, don't underestimate your opponents: the fundies have a lot of political savvy, they are very good at organizing themselves and infiltrating key institutions.
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Jon Miller
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While there are many famous beleiving scientists, Einstein is not really one.
He was a weak deist, not a real religionist. Now there are many beleiving physicists, including very good ones, both in the past and today.
Jon Miller
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:18
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Someone said earlier that evolution is a basic fact of the universe. I'm not convinced about that, to me, evolution is a theory, in the same vein as that which holds that the Earth goes round the sun or quantum mechanics that allows me to use a computer for instance. As such, it is subject to both the doubt and the benefits of empirical observation, so one need not believe in evolution, or even have faith in it, since it's so easy to rationalise it. In my mind, faith and reason to a given end are inversely proportional, to have faith in something is demonstrative of it's subjectivity and lack of reason, to be able to reason in something undermines the potetial for faith.
Which makes the idea that most American's don't concur with evolution something even more ridiculous!
I read a similar figure in this months National Geographic *Whaleboy places paperbag over head*. 12% of Americans hold the view of practically every scientist and intellectual (evolution, big bang, universe is 12-14B years old), 37% believe God started it all and created life but allowed evolution to play a part (the view of teh Catholic church) and 45% of Americans believe in creationism and that the Earth and Universe were created sometime in the last 10'000 years by God. It was a telephone poll so I assume there were a good number of "I'm too dumb and busy voting Republican to even know what you're talking about" answers.
The NG article gives numerous possible reasons for it, before thoroughly pwning creationism in one of the best evolution articles I've read in a long time. Those reasons include willfull ignorance, lack of awareness thanks to the fact that a great many Americans haven't sat a biology course that taught evolution to a significant degree, the effect of fundies campaigning against the education system, which results in such information for people coming from, at best, the odd nature documentary, and at worst popular religion, the media, word of mouth and vocal preachers.
I'd be interested to see what Shrub thinks of this... 
Last edited by Whaleboy on 24-11-2004 at 14:40
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
Someone said earlier that evolution is a basic fact of the universe. |
Someone, eh? 
quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
I'm not convinced about that, to me, evolution is a theory, in the same vein as that which holds that the Earth goes round the sun or quantum mechanics that allows me to use a computer for instance. |
The existence of multi-resistant bacteria should be sufficient to convince you.
To be more specific, you can reasonably sure to hold that there are two parts to evolution: it is both a fact and a theory. Just like gravity. It is a fact that because there are numerous observations of speciations. So evolution does happen, no if's or but's.
The theory part is to explain how evolution happens, and that's the part where disagreement within the scientific community lie.
quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
The NG article gives numerous possible reasons for it, before thoroughly pwning creationism in one of the best evolution articles I've read in a long time. |
Creationism is extremely easy to refute - just ask them to frame a theory against the backdrop of the sciences. The Creationists can't, they don't have a theory.
People hold on to an idea thoroughly rebuked dozens if not hundreds of times not for logical or scientific reasons. One of the biggest shock to many is evolution put humans on the same level as any other lifeforms -- there's nothing special about us. We weren't made specifically. The earth wasn't created for us. And so on, and so forth.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:18
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quote:
The existence of multi-resistant bacteria should be sufficient to convince you.
To be more specific, you can reasonably sure to hold that there are two parts to evolution: it is both a fact and a theory. Just like gravity. It is a fact that because there are numerous observations of speciations. So evolution does happen, no if's or but's.
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Just as the Earth goes round the sun. It's a scientific fact, but it's not a universal "truth" because science is unable to provide essentially irrefutable theories. But that's not a bad thing, it's a basic description of scientific method, the consequence of which undermines creationists even more.
That you have provided an example sufficient to convince (and you're preaching to the choir here) is demonstrative of that.
quote:
The Creationists can't, they don't have a theory.
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They do have a theory. You won't help the debate by flaming, which is unnecessary because it's an extremely weak theory. Scientific theories are supposed to make predictions, the most obvious in this case is that life does not evolve, yet we have observed evolution. Creationism is thus obsolete.
quote:
People hold on to an idea thoroughly rebuked dozens if not hundreds of times not for logical or scientific reasons. One of the biggest shock to many is evolution put humans on the same level as any other lifeforms -- there's nothing special about us. We weren't made specifically. The earth wasn't created for us. And so on, and so forth.
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I agree, there's a great deal of egoism and egocentric self-assurance among the religious/ignorant. People have a psychological attachment to certain ideas and will go to desperate lengths to attack or suppress opposing views, for example, the most ridiculous ad hoc creationist arguments (holding about as much water as a sieve but won't bother with them until someone presents them) or silencing evolutionists in education.
That they are so religious about it is part of the problem. Or perhaps the problem itself  .
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24-11-2004 08:35
Except for India. They're real smart and they steal our jobs. 
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