24-11-2004 23:08									#1
	2149: Pre-planning discussion and build/movement orders Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Proposed 2149 moves (excluding worker reallocation, and excluding the Command Nexus build - in case we pop another supercrawler and want to go straight to the MCC)

Diplomatic

• Call Zak, and discuss the weather
  
• Call Lal, and if Zak hasn't beaten to us:
  - Sell him Morgan's commlink for 20 ec's
  - trade Ind Econ for HEC
  - trade Doc Loyalty for the PK maps

Last edited by Googlie on 28-11-2004 at 10:10

	25-11-2004 16:46									#2
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Proposed 2149 moves

Sounds great!
I've got a few comments and suggestions for discussion.

quote: [*]Gythium Harbour: - A Colony Pod (reaches 4 pops in 5 turns)[/list]

Due to GH's low mineral production that colony pod could never be finished before the base grows, even if we reverse our current plan to rehome units to GH. This would mean GH would have to employ a doctor. However I think this isn't so bad for two reasons:
1) The tiles around GH are relatively unterraformed, so an extra worker instead of doctor wouldn't be able to give us much anyway.
2) Putting a doctor there would make one citizen content (one drone into a worker). This would mean we could let GH be garrisoned by two hoplites, and move the ogre to another more productive base which we could then let grow to size 3 perhaps.

quote: Unit Moves[list][*]Pegasus: - W x 2, then drops off probe teams and then E x 1 to vamoose [*]Peg's Longstriders: - first one takes out the Morgan probe defender, then #2 infiltrates Morgan Corporation

Will we attack with the elite or veteran probe team first?
My experience with the simulator is that if I attack and destroy the Morganite probe with the elite probe team, that probe still has one MP left to infiltrate the Morganites and return to our homelands. Then the trannie can turn back with the second probe unused.

The opposite, attacking with the veteran probe team, would probably mean the unit will end it turn stranded on Morganite territory, and be destroyed by Morganite probe forces as a consequence.

	25-11-2004 19:07									#3
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Couple of great suggestions!!

At some point I think we should let GH grow and flourish - maybe with a rec commons and a few forested tiles around for minerals - perhaps a boregole when we have the luxury of tying up Tomcats there. It's one of ghe few coastal bases we have and prolly one that should be churning out some decent naval vessels.

Re the probes: Unloading just one Elite unit makes a lot of sense. If Morgan just has 1 probe defender there, and our Elite fights and infiltrates (thus returning to Sector Craterwest) how about sending Pegasus and the other probe south to try and find - and infiltrate - the Angels? The returned Elite can then mosey up to Vlad for Uni duty.

(Vander Eudaimonics is down to a size 1 now - see the Morgan profile from the commlinks button. It's a good job we don't eliminate the base when attacking their probe defender!!)

	25-11-2004 20:11									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Re the probes: Unloading just one Elite unit makes a lot of sense. If Morgan just has 1 probe defender there, and our Elite fights and infiltrates (thus returning to Sector Craterwest) how about sending Pegasus and the other probe south to try and find - and infiltrate - the Angels? The returned Elite can then mosey up to Vlad for Uni duty.

Great idea! Also since the SNC Pegasus will have one spot free, who knows it could pop an artifact or rover (or pick up R-112 eventually).

quote: At some point I think we should let GH grow and flourish - maybe with a rec commons and a few forested tiles around for minerals - perhaps a boregole when we have the luxury of tying up Tomcats there. It's one of ghe few coastal bases we have and prolly one that should be churning out some decent naval vessels.

I agree. Though personally I'd wait for letting the base grow further (by rec commons, creche etc) until Phase Three.

However before that time we could perhaps rehome some crawlers (once we have a few more) to our coastal bases, making them our big production bases instead of our inland bases?

On the other hand of course our coastal bases don't really need high production: We could simply use crawler-hurrying (to build expensive ships & navy seals or as you suggest hurry a CP or rec commons after all )!! Crawler-hurrying removes one reason not to build rec commons: them being so expensive.

That's why I'm wondering about this:

quote: Build Orders Minas Tirith: - A super speeder crawler with Plasma Armor and trance Vladivostok: - likewise Sector Cratersouth: - likewise (in case I'm wrong about MT being the nearest base to the Hunter podpop)

Should we really prototype plasma armour, again annulling our ability to crawler-hurry?
A 0-3t-2 180-min crawler only costs 30 minerals more than a 0-2t-2 150-min crawler. Personally I think the ability and flexibility of crawler-hurrying will give us much more advantage than getting 30 minerals extra very rarely.

In the War planning thread you proposed to send a few plasma defenders to Uni continent to defend against his Ogres. However those ogres only have one MP and thus move slowly. I think our elite impact rovers should be able to deal with them well before they come near any base (or as you suggested, mind controlling them would be even better ). The UoP might of course build a rare impact rover themselves, but would an elite or commando 1-2t-2 also not be able to defend against those?

On the whole I think we could get much more advantage out of crawler-hurrying.

quote: [*]Scout garrisonning OA swaps with scout in Santiago Citadel (which is homed to GH)

I'm afraid that unfortunately probably won't be possible.
From the MY 2148 thread:

quote: Btw, there's a little thing I noticed in the previous save: two hoplites in Minas Tirith and Santiago Citadel are set to "On Alert" instead of on "L" = "Sentry - Board Transport". A few years ago we discovered this makes you unable to move the unit at all. May I therefore suggest to cancel the current orders of those units and change them to "L" instead next turn? Otherwise we won't be able to move our units around for rehoming and support purposes etc.

An alternative could perhaps be switch the SC4 garrison with the GH garrison next turn and rehome it? Still achieves the goal of gathering all support in as little bases as possible.

The OA garrison could then perhaps in MY 2150 switch with the SC1 garrison, after the current SC1 production is finished?

quote: [*]SC4's Colony Pod moves to GH en route to reendezvousing with the Hermes on the eastern coast [*]Minas Tirith's Hoplite moves NE to rendezvous with the SC4 Colony Pod heading east[/list]

Re the CP, why move to GH? Have you noticed a faster route than the following: to SC2, then SC1, followed by moving to the coast using Gunrunner's Creek?
Re MT's hoplite, will it be able to rendez-vous with the CP in time? I had a look at the map and as far as I could see it would arrive one turn too late and be unable to escort the CP through the fungus.
An alternative could be to let a SC1 hoplite escort the CP, and let OA build a replacement hoplite for SC1 after the CN is finished?

	25-11-2004 20:29									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, there's a little thing I noticed in the previous save: two hoplites in Minas Tirith and Santiago Citadel are set to "On Alert" instead of on "L" = "Sentry - Board Transport". A few years ago we discovered this makes you unable to move the unit at all. May I therefore suggest to cancel the current orders of those units and change them to "L" instead next turn? Otherwise we won't be able to move our units around for rehoming and support purposes etc.

I skimmed thru that first time. Do you have "cancel Orders" activated? (I do, and on clicking any unit on alert, it reactivates with full movement points that turn - except interceptors)

	25-11-2004 20:32									#6
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Wow didn't know that thanks for telling! I'll go check it out and set to "cancel orders".

	25-11-2004 20:46									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Re the CP, why move to GH? Have you noticed a faster route than the following: to SC2, then SC1, followed by moving to the coast using Gunrunner's Creek? Re MT's hoplite, will it be able to rendez-vous with the CP in time? I had a look at the map and as far as I could see it would arrive one turn too late and be unable to escort the CP through the fungus. An alternative could be to let a SC1 hoplite escort the CP, and let OA build a replacement hoplite for SC1 after the CN is finished?

This is true - but as it'll take 7 turns for the Hermes to reach the mouth of the Creek, the CP could hold for a turn in Sparta Command.

Actually, it'd be better for it to board the Hermes in Amursky Bay. Hermes will be there in 2152, and the Colony Pod will reach Vlad's SW suburbs in 2151. It can transfer to the Mercury at sea, and thus avoid moving thru the fungus completely

	25-11-2004 20:54									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Should we really prototype plasma armour, again annulling our ability to crawler-hurry? A 0-3t-2 180-min crawler only costs 30 minerals more than a 0-2t-2 150-min crawler. Personally I think the ability and flexibility of crawler-hurrying will give us much more advantage than getting 30 minerals extra very rarely.

Good points. I guess I don't often use the crawler upgrades for prototyping

	25-11-2004 21:42									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Actually, it'd be better for it to board the Hermes in Amursky Bay. Hermes will be there in 2152, and the Colony Pod will reach Vlad's SW suburbs in 2151. It can transfer to the Mercury at sea, and thus avoid moving thru the fungus completely

Even better! In that case the MT hoplite could even move directly over land to the base site, without the need for escorting the CP.

	26-11-2004 03:57									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Even better! In that case the MT hoplite could even move directly over land to the base site, without the need for escorting the CP.

	28-11-2004 10:01									#11
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Just to summarize (the posts in the Gaian Summit thread) - I'll still do the turns for the next four to five weeks, then take a six week break while I'm inundated with houseguests

But Maniac - you'll still do the micromanagement, feeding me the requisite orders? (or do you want me to hang the turn in the forum for you to download and then execute the worker allocations, etc? I'd actually like to execute your orders, as then I do get a better feel of the differences they make)

EDIT: And I've updated the first post in the thread to reflect the discussions around these orders

Last edited by Googlie on 28-11-2004 at 10:11

	29-11-2004 02:44									#12
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Sure, sounds great.

Btw, I've got a question. Since the veteran probe team in the SNC Pegasus will now proceed to probe the Angels, there is only probe team available to depart to Uniland. Is that sufficient or not?
If we'd build another probe team (at OA for example after the CN), we're certain we can also probe the Uni maps should the elite probe team be captured after stealing EnvEcon.
Downside of course of building an extra probe team is that we have one crawler less, which means a delay in building the MCC.
Either action's fine by me. What do you think we should do?


I've got a couple other possible suggestions for next year:

How about moving and rehoming the SC4 garrison to GH (and of course move the current GH garrison to SC4)? IIRC that will reduce GH mineral production to zero for next turn. We can always move it back later if we want to.

I see the energy allocations are 40% economy & 60% labs. Should they be 60% economy & 40% labs instead?

Just for all clarity (as it's not in the orders), will the former currently in Rio Grande help in building the rocky mineral mine?

	29-11-2004 05:29									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, I've got a question. Since the veteran probe team in the SNC Pegasus will now proceed to probe the Angels, there is only probe team available to depart to Uniland. Is that sufficient or not? If we'd build another probe team (at OA for example after the CN), we're certain we can also probe the Uni maps should the elite probe team be captured after stealing EnvEcon. Downside of course of building an extra probe team is that we have one crawler less, which means a delay in building the MCC

Well, current intentions are to send the about-to-be-commissioned Crypteia from GH up to Vlad for guardprobe duty. We could go with the original thought and send that one down to MT, and deploy the longstrider up to Vlad. He'll be better for offensive probe action anyway (with 2 mps) and will always get returned to Vlad when finished.

The only reason to send him to MT was a time factor. He'll be there in 3 turns versus 6 for the Crypteia (we'd actually be quicker to fresh build a Crypteia for MT - 5 turns - than moving one from GH

quote: I've got a couple other possible suggestions for next year: How about moving and rehoming the SC4 garrison to GH (and of course move the current GH garrison to SC4)? IIRC that will reduce GH mineral production to zero for next turn. We can always move it back later if we want to.

quote: I see the energy allocations are 40% economy & 60% labs. Should they be 60% economy & 40% labs instead?

LOL (or not so LOL as the case might be) - I totally screwed up on that one. I read the earlier suggestion to move the sliders, and couldn't for the life of me figure why 53 turns to next tech, with 3 income (but -12% labs and -24% econ) was any better than the (then) current 56 years with 3 income and 0 inefficiency, but figured "hey, Maniac's the micromanager", so went ahead and moved them. Of course, I set them the wrong way round!!

(I guess it pays to ask when it's not clear, eh?)

quote: Just for all clarity (as it's not in the orders), will the former currently in Rio Grande help in building the rocky mineral mine?

No - that former was the one I moved by mistake into the base. Wasn't it going to plant a forest in 52:14 (a rolling and arid crater tile) that could be worked by any of the 3 bases - SC3, FB or RG>

With the mine being on the river now, though, it could deploy there in 2149 and commence working with the other 2 already there that same year, so prolly the mine completion would be advanced from 2154 to 2152

(Actually, I think it's going there whether we like it or not. I see from the save that I'd tried to send it there last turn, - from 55:13 - but it stalled in the base. So it's under movement orders to go there, so will prolly get there imemdiately on opening the turn)

G.

	29-11-2004 19:10									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Well, current intentions are to send the about-to-be-commissioned Crypteia from GH up to Vlad for guardprobe duty. We could go with the original thought and send that one down to MT, and deploy the longstrider up to Vlad. He'll be better for offensive probe action anyway (with 2 mps) and will always get returned to Vlad when finished.

Sounds great to me.

quote: The only reason to send him to MT was a time factor. He'll be there in 3 turns versus 6 for the Crypteia (we'd actually be quicker to fresh build a Crypteia for MT - 5 turns - than moving one from GH

A Crypteia in MT in five turns. Is that calculated when Minas Tirith would start training of a Crypteia right now, or after building another hoplite? Problem is that MT will grow in a few turns, so will need a second hoplite soon.

We could of course let the hoplite just trained in MT stay in that base after all, but that would then mean we'd need to squeeze in a hoplite training after all in one of our core bases, to escort the SC4 CP to its Hive border location.

Or of course build a hoplite first in MT, then a Crypteia, and hurry that production when it has reached 10 mins.

quote: With the mine being on the river now, though, it could deploy there in 2149 and commence working with the other 2 already there that same year, so prolly the mine completion would be advanced from 2154 to 2152

Yeah I think too that would give most advantage under the current situation.


Btw, I don't know if I already suggested this somewhere, but in case not, how about the following worker relocations:
GH worker moves from the 3-1-0 farm to a 2-1-0 tile.
SC1 forest worker moves from the 1-2-2 tile to the 3-1-0 farm.
SC2 2-1-0 worker moves to the forest.

Result of this all would be that SC1 would grow faster, in two turns.
(And since SC1 has only one b-drone at the moment, by stationing an extra hoplite there (currently under SC1 production IIRC?) we can easily quell the drone and hace a productive worker. )

	29-11-2004 20:57									#15
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**Jackpot!! **

I went to bed last evening after just doing the infiltration and prepping & posting the screenies, so first thing this morning continued the turn.

Popped a completion with the Hunter and the Mercury. (You know, I think, based on yon simulation I ran a couple of months ago, that the odds do increase if a new build command is put in a base immediately before popping a pod)

As this may alter somewhat our proposed rehoming (eg, we might want to rehome - temporarily - that Sparta Command scout currently in SC4 to SC4 itself, as the speeder crawler doesn't need any SCC4 minerals this turn - perhaps the same with the rovers boarding the Mercury at Vlad - rehome a couple to Vlad.)

Midturn save attached for review and discussion

(Unit moves this turn so far - all ships and rovers, and former at RG onto mine (for completion in 2 turns)

Attachment: acdg3-sparta,2149mid.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	29-11-2004 21:41									#16
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A question re the SP's

Given the instabuild feature of having 2 speeder trance synthcrawlers (for the MCC) how about the following for the Command Nexus:

Use the current synthcrawler, and then 1 of the AA's. Move the worker from the 4 mienral mine to the 7 mineral mine. That leaves 51 minerals needed to complete.

Upgrade the current crawler sitting in OA to an unarmoured trance crawler (50 minerals, 50 ec's, leaving 195 ec's) and add that to the CN build. Then swap the garrison scout with Sparta Command's and rehome it there, thus freeing up that last mineral for CN completion in 2150. That way we save an AA either for cashing in for a tech in one of the captured Uni bases' netnodes, or to accelerate the CDF build when we get Int Int

Plus, with 195 still in the kitty, we still have enough to upgrade the 3 rovers to impact (50 for the Warwag laser rover and 60 for the two scout rovers) even without the 27 ec's we'll get from Morgan next turn.

(btw, do we/should we owe/offer him any reparations for destroying that armored probe defender?)

Last edited by Googlie on 30-11-2004 at 00:17

	29-11-2004 21:47									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac A Crypteia in MT in five turns. Is that calculated when Minas Tirith would start training of a Crypteia right now, or after building another hoplite? Problem is that MT will grow in a few turns, so will need a second hoplite soon. We could of course let the hoplite just trained in MT stay in that base after all, but that would then mean we'd need to squeeze in a hoplite training after all in one of our core bases, to escort the SC4 CP to its Hive border location. Or of course build a hoplite first in MT, then a Crypteia, and hurry that production when it has reached 10 mins.

Remember that we have an Impact Rover coming off training in 2 turns that could be sent to Minas Tirith (or could catch up with the Colony Pod in transit to allow the Hoplite to stary in MT)

And our returned Elite Probe can now move to Vlad for Uni probe (and base defensive) duties, allowing the longstrider en route to MT to continue there. The new GH Crypteia can then go, as planned, up to Vlad for defensive duties, as we know there are 2 Morgan probefoils on the prowl

Eventually we'll need another Crypteia to staff the new base that'll be founded on the coast east of MT, but that's a handful of turns away

	29-11-2004 22:13									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie **Jackpot!! ** I went to bed last evening after just doing the infiltration and prepping & posting the screenies, so first thing this morning continued the turn. Popped a completion with the Hunter and the Mercury.

This is awesome news of course. We popped an SP!
We are reaping the rewards for going for Doc:Flex early on.

Of course, this means I can start a petition for saving an AA and getting a free tech for it :P

As for war damage to the Morganites. We should never openly admit to infiltrating, in the spirit of roleplaying, but we might send them back the money we get from their trade bonus this turn and blame it on clerical errors in the intelligence department.

	29-11-2004 22:56									#19
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It was strange when I did open and play some of the turn this morning. I set up the build changes in the various bases, then popped with the Hunter, and got the speeder crawler.

Great excitement (especially as I knew that the pod Mercury was going to pop would prolly yield a good event, as it was within Vlad's base radius.

But when it popped another speeder crawler, I genuinely thought that maybe I should exit and replay the turn, as luck like this would prolly arouse suspicions (even although I haven't the slightest idea of what Enigma_Nova was talking about re: altering the registry entries - whatever they are)

But then I got to thinking - high odds, but not unusual, given that one was in a base radius. Then I thought - after all, what were the odds of Rolling Thunder popping a 4 mindworm event that earkly in the game (according to Prima, about 1 in 200 !!).

So good fortune evens out bad luck - that's the nature of randomness.

So hooray for us. I didn't feel guilty any more about our good luck, and (obviously) I didn't replay the turn

G,

	29-11-2004 23:44									#20
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Recap of moves and suggestions/questions for balance of moves:

Diplomacy

• Lal won't answer his commlink
  
• PK commlink put in Morgan in-tray (dare we send it without pre-accepting, to get one more kick at the can with Lal?)

Last edited by Googlie on 30-11-2004 at 03:30

	30-11-2004 04:36									#21
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen As for war damage to the Morganites. We should never openly admit to infiltrating, in the spirit of roleplaying,

Given that they'll get a message that their probe was destroyed by a Spartan one, should our response then be:

"What the heck - who's framing us?"

	30-11-2004 05:10									#22
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Yes that's it. Deny! Deny! Deny! We could send them small sum of ec's in the spirit of friendship as we continue our pursuit of the real infiltrators. Or perhaps they'll understand that our funds are badly needed for their persecution.

	30-11-2004 05:13									#23
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Err... what probe?

	30-11-2004 05:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Given that they'll get a message that their probe was destroyed by a Spartan one, should our response then be: "What the heck - who's framing us?"

LL

quote: Scout garrisonning OA swaps with scout in Sparta Command, and rehomes to there(doesn't detract from SC's Impact Rover completion, and means that OA can complete the CN without reallocating the worker off the mionolith)

Sounds great to me. May I then also suggest rehoming the SC1 hoplite in SC4 to SC4? That way SC1 will still produce 3 mins, even after relocating a worker from the forest to the farm time, sufficient for completing the hoplite training.

quote: Longstrider just SE of Gythium Harbour continues 2 tiles towards Minas Tirith GH's new Crypteia sets off for Vladivostok

Sounds sensible indeed, with those two Gators somewhere in the neighbourhood.

quote: Remember that we have an Impact Rover coming off training in 2 turns that could be sent to Minas Tirith

So you would not send that unit to Uniland? I've been playing the simulator a bit, and I noticed our invasion units tend to get bogged down due to garrison duty, turning our Blitzkrieg into a Sitzkrieg. Therefore I'd be tending towards saying "The more units we can send to Uniland the better." I'm even wondering if it would be a good idea to send a whole shipload of hoplites to Uniland, so those can take over the necessary garrison duty from our invasion units.

quote: Given the instabuild feature of having 2 speeder trance synthcrawlers (for the MCC) how about the following for the Command Nexus: Use the current synthcrawler, and then 1 of the AA's. Move the worker from the 4 mienral mine to the 7 mineral mine. That leaves 51 minerals needed to complete. Upgrade the current crawler sitting in OA to an unarmoured trance crawler (50 minerals, 50 ec's, leaving 195 ec's) and add that to the CN build. Then swap the garrison scout with Sparta Command's and rehome it there, thus freeing up that last mineral for CN completion in 2150. That way we save an AA either for cashing in for a tech in one of the captured Uni bases' netnodes, or to accelerate the CDF build when we get Int Int

Original plan! Ignore me if you had already thought of that, but don't forget to upgrade our crawler using the unit workshop instead of upgrading it individually. Reason is upgrading a unit individually ends its turn, so the trance crawler would no longer be able to move out the base and move back in to be cashed in!

quote: SC4's Colony Pod sets off to Vladivostok to reendezvous with the Hermes in Amursky Bay (and transfer at sea to the Mercury, when in range)

quote: Minas Tirith's Hoplite heads east across the peninsula to board the Mercury as it steams south with SC4's colony pod

I'm somewhat confused by those. I had been working under the assumption that SNC Hermes would transport the CP to its location, and SNC Mercury would continue to ferry all sorts of units to our conquered Uni ports.
How would you organize those two trannies? What would Mercury do after dropping off the CP, and what would Hermes do?

Also why (when and where) does the MT hoplite need to be picked up? I'm wondering whether moving directly over land to the intended base location would not work?

quote: Any other suggestions?

Worker and energy reallocations I guess.

	30-11-2004 05:38									#25
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Also need some feedback on the proposed build orders - crawlers or hoplites? Clearly we need more Hoplites both for our internal expansion as well as for garrisoning Uni bases. Which leads to some other points

Hermes vs Mercury

It does make sense for the slower moving Hermes to shuttle the Colony Pod south and for the Mercury to shuttle to and from UniBase (with its much bigger carrying capacity) And I don't know what I was thinkling re the scout boarding the trannie - he'll be waiting at the coastal site across the peninsula long before the colony pod ever gets there.

And I agree that we should prolly earmark the new Impact Rover (plus RT2) for the second wave to be ferried across - again, provided that they're replaced gy hoplites for our home bases' sentry duty

	30-11-2004 05:51									#26
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hmm - one of the problems of laptopping is that sometimes the sensor pad is too sensitive (like posting instead of ending a sentence)

To continue ........

so we should prolly put a priority on Hoplites rather than crawlers for those big producing bases these next 2 or 3 turns

And re the SP crawler upgrade. I did remember in the sim to use the DW to still have mps left, so let's hope that I do remember in the actual gameturn

Begging a question - if the 2 speeder crawlers are in fact enough for the MCC, should we build that in a zero-mineral base like GH? (or Inland, for safety, to make it harder to get captured in the event that we get into a war and do badly?)

	30-11-2004 12:21									#27
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If we build Hoplites, would we still have enough crawlers by the time we get IntInt to instabuild the CDF immediately? Other human factions will be lusting after it too, and they are all in a position to research IntInt right? So what chances do we have to get it first?

	30-11-2004 19:20									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie so we should prolly put a priority on Hoplites rather than crawlers for those big producing bases these next 2 or 3 turns

quote: Begging a question - if the 2 speeder crawlers are in fact enough for the MCC, should we build that in a zero-mineral base like GH? (or Inland, for safety, to make it harder to get captured in the event that we get into a war and do badly?)

Either seems fine to me.

Some little facts for consideration:

If I've looked correctly the only base that both supply speeders can reach next year, is Sparta Command. That would work out nice: with the worker relocation and unit rehoming suggested previously, the base would finish its hoplite without any excess minerals next year, meaning we could cash in those 300 crawler mins without any inefficiency. (Minerals hurried over the mineral cost of a production item are lost).

If we waited one more year and used that to reposition our supply speeders, we could build the MCC in about any base we wanted, including GH.

So a consideration to make, is the following I guess:
What do we value the most?

Let our exploration ships and transports have two extra MPs one year earlier. Also SCC Hunter, which could - if we don't pop the pod yet next year - in MY 2151 pop the pod with 6 MPs, meaning it wouldn't run any risk to get attacked by an IoD - it could flee if necessary.

Or - have two crawlers one year extra, meaning we could let them harvest resources for a year before cashing them in for the MCC.

quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen If we build Hoplites, would we still have enough crawlers by the time we get IntInt to instabuild the CDF immediately? Other human factions will be lusting after it too, and they are all in a position to research IntInt right? So what chances do we have to get it first?

Too early to say I guess. When IntInt will first be researched all depends on what the priorities are of the other factions.
Both the Gaians and Angels have DocLoy, but not yet EthCalc. So they only have one prerequisite right now.
The Morganites have EthCalc, but not yet DocLoy. Fortunately they have promised not to build the CDF IIRC.

Personally I think our best shot would be to persuade the Morganites to research IntInt for us. Then we could have IntInt in perhaps some five years.

Of course if we cash in the artifact we have a chance of getting IntInt. But on the other side there's a bigger chance we could get a useless tech such as Field Modulation, or a tech an AI already has, eg Polymorphic Software (Hive), or High Energy Chemistry (Lal).

	30-11-2004 19:44									#29
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Both Speeder Crawlers can also reach OA, but I like Sparta Command better (spread the SP's around) - and it lets OA still use its high minerals production for crawler building.

And I think we should bite the bullet next turn rather than wait - those extra 2 movement points a turn earlier means 2 tiles closer to the Angels with the Pegasus probe, and gets the Hermes right in the Bay (with the colony pod boarding) with all 5 mps' to start its next turn rather than just having 3 left and stalling immediately in that fungus offshore Vlad.

(also, the Mercury will move 5 this next turn and anchor off University base - the turn after it can offload the invasion force and get back to the headlands with the mine being built NE of Vlad, where the second wave can board right from the road to the mine (the second wave prolly being the new Impact rover and the Crypteia heading to Vlad - he'll have 1/3rd mp left to leap aboard, if he can...... do we want to include a couple of Tomcats in that second wave too, for putting a mine or 2 in University Base's rocky tiles?)

And as to working with Morgan to get Int Int - I agree, even if it costs us a couple of techs (note that they are currently getting a tech every 4 years - of course that will slow as they get more techs relative to total techs - we're at the max right now 'cos we have the tech lead)

	01-12-2004 08:13									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

2149 - Final attached

(If we are going to work with Morgan by sending Soc Psych and Doc Loyalty, then it'll have to be next turn. There just isn't enough time left with the 2149 for it to happen now

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2149 (final).zip
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