30-11-2004 22:55									#121
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Ozzy: Do you know what Ecce Homo is? It's a book where Nietzsche looks at himself and analyzes himself. The narcisstic chapter titles are necessary, for everyone (well, every non depressed person) believes himself to be wise or clever, or writing good books. Most people don't want to seem to be narcisstic, even though it is normal. Nietzsche says forget that.

And in the end, Ecce Homo is written for those that hate him and is his story of why they should not hate him.

	30-11-2004 22:56									#122
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quote: Originally posted by GePap See, perfect example- that is completely right.

Hehe, actually just a few lines down he says "Perhaps I am a buffoon."

Right again.

	30-11-2004 22:58									#123
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As "Why I am Destiny" begins:

quote: I know my fate. One day my name will be associated with the memory of something tremendous—a crisis without equal on earth, the most profound collision of conscience, a decision that was conjured up against everything that had been believed, demanded, hallowed so far. I am no man, I am dynamite.— Yet for all that, there is nothing in me of a founder of a religion—religions are affairs of the rabble, I find it necessary to wash my hands after I have come into contact with religious people ... I want no "believers"; I think I am too malicious to believe in myself; I never speak to masses ... I have a terrible fear that one day I will be pronounced holy: you will guess why I publish this book before, it shall prevent people from doing mischief with me ... I do not want to be a holy man; sooner even a buffoon ... Perhaps I am a buffoon

	30-11-2004 22:59									#124
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quote: it shall prevent people from doing mischief with me

Oops, that didn't work so well.

-Arrian

	30-11-2004 22:59									#125
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quote: actually just a few lines down he says "Perhaps I am a buffoon."

That really proves your point that Nietzsche was trying to exhault himself .

	30-11-2004 23:01									#126
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A moment of clarity.

-Arrian

	30-11-2004 23:02									#127
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian A moment of clarity. -Arrian

Yep, his entire lifetime was a moment of clarity in the history of humanity.

	30-11-2004 23:03									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ozzy: Do you know what Ecce Homo is? It's a book where Nietzsche looks at himself and analyzes himself. The narcisstic chapter titles are necessary, for everyone (well, every non depressed person) believes himself to be wise or clever, or writing good books. Most people don't want to seem to be narcisstic, even though it is normal. Nietzsche says forget that. And in the end, Ecce Homo is written for those that hate him and is his story of why they should not hate him.

See first he had to create a philosophy that could honor and praise himself. He did that in his earlier writings. In Ecce Homo, in case you didn't get it already, he made it explicit that the highest exemplar of his philosophy was... him.

Its funny actually. And actually, if you buy into his philosophy, you find he really is the exemplar of it. I do give the man great credit. He is the most committed, most successful, most intelligent narcissit the world has ever seen.

The fact he got everyone to buy into it... Priceless.

	30-11-2004 23:05									#129
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He woulda made one helluva internet troll.

-Arrian

	30-11-2004 23:08									#130
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You're not a republican nor a fascist.
You're a psycho

sorry, sorry, sorry

	30-11-2004 23:11									#131
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In the Preface of Ecce Homo

quote: The last thing I should promise would be to "improve" mankind. No new idols are erected by me; let the old ones learn what feet of clay mean. Overthrowing idols (my word for "ideals")—that comes closer to being part of my craft.

How is this philosophy praising himself now? If the aim is overthrowing idols, where does the right exemplar come in? Is the argument that he's the best at overthrowing idols? That's kind of a silly way to honor and praise yourself.

Though the genius of Ecce Homo, IMO, is that he writes like people would about their own ideas if they weren't so concerned by what others would think (the superego exercizing restraint). He is writing what most people feel down inside but are afraid to say outloud. He is writing in terms of the base desires (the id), and digging into the unconscious in his autobiography.

	30-11-2004 23:20									#132
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A testiment to himself.

quote: Revaluation of all values: that is my formula for an act of supreme self-examination on the part of humanity, become flesh and genius in me. It is my fate that I have to be the first decent human being; that I know myself to stand in opposition to the mendaciousness of millennia.— I was the first to discover the truth by being the first to experience lies as lies—smelling them out.— My genius is in my nostrils.

quote: I am by far the most terrible human being that has existed so far; this does not preclude the possibility that I shall be the most beneficial. I know the pleasure in destroying to a degree that accords with my powers to destroy—in both respects I obey my Dionysian nature which does not know how to separate doing No from saying Yes. I am the first immoralist: that makes me the annihilator par excellence.

quote: There is yet another sense, however, in which I have chosen the word immoralist as a symbol and badge of honor for myself; I am proud of having this word which distinguishes me from the whole of humanity. Nobody yet has felt Christian morality to be beneath him: that requires a height, a view of distances, a hitherto altogether unheard-of psychological depth and profundity. Christian morality has been the Circe of all thinkers so far—they stood in her service.— Who before me climbed into the caverns from which the poisonous fumes of this type of ideal—slander of the world—are rising? Who even dared to suspect that they are caverns? Who among philosophers was a psychologist at all before me, and not rather the opposite, a "higher swindler" and "idealist"? There was no psychology at all before me.— To be the first here may be a curse; it is at any rate a destiny: for one is also the first to despise.— Nausea at man is my danger.

quote: The uncovering of Christian morality is an event without parallel, a real catastrophe. He that is enlightened about that, is a force majeure, a destiny—he breaks the history of mankind in two. One lives before him, or one lives after him.

	30-11-2004 23:23									#133
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gay Nazis and Jewish kapos


thread-jacking Speer's thread

	30-11-2004 23:24									#134
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Equal rights

People who believe in equal rights for some and not others

	30-11-2004 23:24									#135
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Five year olds should not have the right to vote or the equal privilege to drive automobiles.

	30-11-2004 23:25									#136
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As I edited in as you were posting:

Though the genius of Ecce Homo, IMO, is that he writes like people would about their own ideas if they weren't so concerned by what others would think (the superego exercizing restraint). He is writing what most people feel down inside but are afraid to say outloud. He is writing in terms of the base desires (the id), and digging into the unconscious in his autobiography.


I'll add to that is that he is mostly right. No one was doing what he did and he ended up being incredibly influential in all manner of things, such as art, politics, and philosophy. Post-modernism and structuralism owe a great debt to Nietzsche.

	30-11-2004 23:25									#137
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Why not?

Having a right != exercising a right.

	30-11-2004 23:27									#138
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Why not? Having a right != exercising a right.

damn -- you're about as crazy as some of the other Apolyton nutcases

	30-11-2004 23:27									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'll add to that is that he is mostly right. No one was doing what he did and he ended up being incredibly influential in all manner of things, such as art, politics, and philosophy. Post-modernism and structuralism owe a great debt to Nietzsche.

Everyone was duped. Its funny.

	30-11-2004 23:28									#140
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun damn -- you're about as crazy as some of the other Apolyton nutcases

Well first of all, when I talk about youth rights I don't mean 5 year olds, but if you insist on mischaracterizing it, then fine. Why not 5 year olds?

	30-11-2004 23:30									#141
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quote: Everyone was duped.

Or rather you were duped and the intelligent realized the brilliance. Hell, there were/are people out there that still think Darwin was wrong and was writing to exhault himself. They think everyone was duped by evolution .

	30-11-2004 23:30									#142
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Everyone was duped. Its funny.

The fact is you are the more common line on Nitezsche, the mass market "Oh my gosh, he bad" line.

0 points for originality.

	30-11-2004 23:31									#143
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If only they knew the truth, that Darwin was writing to exhault Nietzsche.

	30-11-2004 23:32									#144
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Well first of all, when I talk about youth rights I don't mean 5 year olds, but if you insist on mischaracterizing it, then fine. Why not 5 year olds?

You say that it is unfair to arbitrarily draw a distinction between 16 year olds and 18 year olds, in terms of granting equal rights and privileges right??


If so, then wouldn't it also be arbitrary to draw a distinction between 16 year olds and say, 12 year olds? I mean if you insist that we use intelligence or whatever else as a barometer to grant equal rights and privileges rather than an arbitrary age marker, then why not grant intelligent 12 year olds the same rights and privileges that 18 year olds have??



If this is your reasoning and your argument, this is why I think you're a nutcase.

And if I'm wrong with my understanding of your argument, refresh my memory from last time you discussed this pet project of yours.

	30-11-2004 23:32									#145
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The fact is you are the more common line on Nitezsche, the mass market "Oh my gosh, he bad" line. 0 points for originality.

You just fail to recognize why I am so clever and wise. Perhaps I should write a book telling you how wise I truly am. You seem to go for that stuff.

	30-11-2004 23:34									#146
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quote: The fact is you are the more common line on Nitezsche, the mass market "Oh my gosh, he bad" line.

Same with Machiavelli, even though most intelligent people realize that his advice was good (and of course most people never read the "Discourses on Livy")

	30-11-2004 23:34									#147
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun You say that it is unfair to arbitrarily draw a distinction between 16 year olds and 18 year olds, in terms of granting equal rights and privileges right?? If so, then wouldn't it also be arbitrary to draw a distinction between 16 year olds and say, 12 year olds? I mean if you insist that we use intelligence or whatever else as a barometer to grant equal rights and privileges rather than an arbitrary age marker, then why not grant intelligent 12 year olds the same rights and privileges that 18 year olds have??

Why not?

quote: If this is your reasoning and your argument, this is why I think you're a nutcase.

Why? Because I believe people should be judged on who they are not based on who they have sex with or their birthdate?

	30-11-2004 23:35									#148
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quote: this is why I think you're a nutcase.

It's just one of the many reasons he's a nutcase .

	30-11-2004 23:35									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: The fact is you are the more common line on Nitezsche, the mass market "Oh my gosh, he bad" line. Same with Machiavelli, even though most intelligent people realize that his advice was good (and of course most people never read the "Discourses on Livy")

See many people criticse Nietzsche without understanding him. I criticise him because I understand him.

	30-11-2004 23:36									#150
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Why? Because I believe people should be judged on who they are not based on who they have sex with or their birthdate?

Exactly -- I think you're finally moving pass the denial stage of being a nutcase. Once you can admit you're a nutcase, all you have to do, is take the first step in getting professional help.