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Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 09:19
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AU 505 The Power of Fascism - Download Thread Enter the AD-FREE zone

For thousands of years, the American people have been devout pacifists. Even persuading them to defend themselves has been difficult enough, and aggressive warfare has been completely out of the question, no matter what the provocation. Sometimes it has seemed as if an enemy army could knock on the very gates of Washington and the most America's army might do would be to smack them in the head with a large and smelly trout, and ask them to leave.

But in recent years, new leaders have started to emerge who are tired of having their beloved nation be viewed with contempt for its weakness. Those men and women desire a new order of things, an order in which weak individuals will no longer be allowed to undermine the power of the State. In that new order, every person will be expected to do his or her part to ensure that America will take its rightful place in the world, or at least die in the trying. If some refuse to cooperate, well, there are ways of dealing with such traitors.

These followers of Fascism are now ready to seize power. It is up to you, as the power-hungry and merciless Great Leader of this drastic movement, to show the rest of the world America’s rightful place as its fistful ruler. If the leaders of other nations are wise, they will surrender peacefully. If not, your scientists have this idea for a nifty little airplane that might help convince them to reconsider.

-------

The goal of this course is to explore the uses of Fascism, a government that most players seem to use rarely if ever. In the process, we can consider whether the current AU Mod version of Fascism is worth considering using at least occasionally or whether further changes are needed if we want it to be useful in more than a tiny handful of situations. Toward that end, players are strongly encouraged to use Fascism enough to get a good feel for what it is like.

Rules:
1. No offensive aggression* unless Fascism is your current government.

2. The only victory conditions allowed are Conquest and Domination.

3. Automatic A for whoever makes the best use of Fascism.

If there are any questions (concerning fighting or whatever), please post here. Someone will resolve the issue quickly.


* No action that requires you to declare war. No attacking enemy units in their territory, no matter what (and that includes wounded units that just finished attacking you). No attacking cities, even if they belonged to you earlier. No moving units through enemy territory with the hopes that they declare war on you. I suggest that you are only allowed to declare war if you are being directly threatened. This is open to your interpretation of "threatened".

-------

[EDIT: The below paragraph indicates that this course is only available with the AU Mod 1.06a... this was later changed, and there is a stock version of the zipfile further down on this page.]

This course is being offered solely with the AU Mod 1.06. Certain prospective changes to the AU Mod (as of 10/27/2004), some of which have been approved and not yet incorporated, and some of which were still under consideration as of such date, are included, and thus this version is being identified as 1.06a:

* Light (Military Tradition, 5/3/3) and Heavy (Nationalism, 6/3/3) Cavalry, as proposed by nbarclay and fully approved.

* Statue of Zeus and Knights Templar each also act as Barracks.

* Unit support of 0/1/1+15 for Republic and 0/1/1+18 for Democracy (NOTE: This was Theseus' tweak to a government change under discussion).

Additionally, Theseus added a slight surprise that will hopefully challenge the players.

Good luck, good hunting, and may you be "All That A Fascist Can Be"! (tm)

[EDIT: Download is in the next post due to my mis-understanding of 'poly ]

[EDIT: Sorry everybody, but for some reason the tile of the thread is messed up, missing the 'A' in 'AU']

Last edited by Theseus on 01-12-2004 at 05:52

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 09:25
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Download for AU 505 Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Voila

[EDIT: Replaced with alexman's zip file at 10:49am on 11/30]

Attachment: au505.zip
This has been downloaded 56 time(s).

Last edited by Theseus on 30-11-2004 at 20:49

cracky is offline cracky
Chieftain

May 2003
time: 21:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 09:30
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Inflate your Upload Space

Theseus:

This seems to be a .biq file rather than a .sav, I'm guessing due to the AU mod incorporations. I'm pretty sure this means it goes in my Scenarios folder rather than the Saves folder, right?

[edit] And all difficulty levels are therefore availalbe, no?

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 09:34
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Put an end to popups!

Yes, put it in the Scenarios folder... the only choice is to play as America. This allows players to select their chosen difficulty level.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 11:59
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Here's a look at the starting position for those who want to see it in advance.

Attachment: starting position.jpg
This has been downloaded 202 time(s).

Risa is offline Risa
Warlord

Nov 2003
time: 13:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 15:03
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Cool position.

Maybe I could recycle this map for an OCC game after the course.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 15:17
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Increase the size of your Attachments

The catch to this starting position is that it doesn't have any food bonuses, at least that we can see from the starting position. I don't know how big a deal that is in OCC games, but it definitely makes for a bit slower REXing in conventional games. (And the lack of initial food bonuses, coupled with the special restrictions we're playing under, may provide a hint that this may not be the ideal game for choosing a relatively hard difficulty level.) Still, for a starting position without a food bonus, this looks like a pretty strong one.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 15:56 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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I need clarification on the "no offensive aggression" thing.

Is it ok to take cities in peace treaties, if some AI gives them up after (obviously) losing lots of units in futile attacks?

Is it ok to pillage, if war was declared on me?

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 16:25
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Pillaging within the borders of another nation would be a hostile military action taken within another nation's borders. So I would say that it's disallowed.

Is it even possible to get AI cities in peace treaties when you haven't taken any AI cities? In any case, I don't think accepting AI cities in peace negotiations should be allowed. The problem is that if we allow it, players might engage in longer, more drawn-out "defensive" wars than necessery in order to pursue the clearly offensive objective of persuading an AI to surrender a town in the peace negotiations. The best way to prevent such use of nominally defensive warfare for a purpose that is in reality offensive would be to disallow accepting cities in peace treaties.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 16:52 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, it is possible to get cities in a peace treaty, without capturing cities yourself. But those are mostly small ones, that have not had a cultural border expansion yet, and it might require killing lots of units.

-SafaN- is offline -SafaN-
Warlord

May 2004
time: 06:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 17:52
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Inflate your Upload Space

is culture flipping allowed?

Greetz

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 19:07 Visit alexman's homepage!
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In the version of the mod posted, Russians and Ottomans cannot upgrade their horse units to their UU.

Is there a reason we are not using the latest version of the AU mod?

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 19:40
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Shoot, alexman... I was afraid the mod might have gotten messed up, due to pvzh and I collaborating on it.

Can you fix it and email it to me?

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 20:22 Visit alexman's homepage!
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#14 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

E-mailed and posted the save games for Regent to Sid.
I used the AU mod 1.07 rules.
Thanks for setting it up!

[Edit: deleted attachment, since it is now in the second post, above]

Last edited by alexman on 30-11-2004 at 20:52

pvzh is offline pvzh
Warlord
Canada
Aug 2002
time: 01:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 20:45
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Edit: Nevermind. Alexman has fixed it
Theseus you need to delete your download I guess

PS To bad that rule import killed my carefully planted easter egg

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 30-11-2004 20:50
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I have attached alexman's zip file in the first post... sorry about that everyone!!

Dominae is offline Dominae
Emperor

Jan 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 00:07
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Thanks, T!

One gripe: I still think it's a good idea to post AU mod and stock versions of each course. Maybe you can post the stock saves when you get the chance.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 04:16
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Ask and ye shall receive:

AU 505 - stock - Regent through Sid

Attachment: au505_stock.zip
This has been downloaded 11 time(s).

-SafaN- is offline -SafaN-
Warlord

May 2004
time: 06:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 17:30
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

i can't follow anymore: I downloaded the file at 14.00 CET yesterday and played DAR 1 and 2, should I restart?

And nobody answered the flipping question. Is culture flipping allowed or must u "rebuff the rebels"?

greetz

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 17:56
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Downloads after 11:50am [EDIT: EST] on 11/30 are fine.

Culture flipping is FINE!

Last edited by Theseus on 01-12-2004 at 20:42

Modo44 is offline Modo44
Emperor
in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 18:24 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus
Culture flipping is FINE!

Poor, poor AI. So very dead AUmerican.

nbarclay is offline nbarclay
Emperor
Huntsville, Alabama
Dec 1999
time: 23:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 18:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Theseus

Culture flipping is FINE!


Agreed. The idea of America not trying to engage in some "cultural imperialism" would seem a bit out of character.

UnOrthOdOx is offline UnOrthOdOx
Emperor
Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 20:13
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I've been rather absent from AU for some time, but am rather bored gaming wise ATM, and am something of a fan of Fascism, so I'll looky at this.

Q: What changes to Fascism has AU made?

I'm guessing it may be usefull to have someone use stock rules to compare to similar empires with the AU mod? I'll volunteer for that anyway, being unfamiliar with AU since C3C came out.

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 20:57 Visit alexman's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
Q: What changes to Fascism has AU made?


GOVERNMENTS


  • Republic: The Republic has always been the most flexible government, and now that free unit support has been added in C3C, it's even better than before.

    1. Reduced the free unit support to 0/1/1 per town/city/metro
    2. Added 18 flat free unit support.
    3. All AI civilizations favor this government.

  • Feudalism: There is little point to Feudalism, as it's worse than Monarchy in almost all situations.

    1. Reduced corruption to minimal.

  • Democracy: Democracy does not provide a significant enough advantage over Republic to justify a non-Religious switch.

    1. Increased the free unit support to 0/1/1 per town/city/metro.
    2. Added 18 flat free unit support.

  • Communism: Communism is too powerful with the new corruption model and the addition of the SPHQ.

    1. Removed Secret Police Headquarters Small Wonder.

  • Fascism: Fascism is almost never better than Communism as a war time government, yet the AI consistently choose it during war.

    1. Increased Fascism corruption level to problematic.
    2. Added Secret Police Headquarters Small Wonder.
    3. All AI civilizations shun this government.

UnOrthOdOx is offline UnOrthOdOx
Emperor
Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 21:02
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Yeah, I rememberred the Feudalism changes. At least a part of why I lost interest a while ago.

I strongly disagree that stock Feudalism is weaker than stock Monarchy. Reduced corruption with my playstyle would be insane.

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 21:06 Visit alexman's homepage!
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I guess you need to improve your skills when at Monarchy then.

Anyway, please make comments in the AU mod governments thread, if you're interested in giving feedback.

UnOrthOdOx is offline UnOrthOdOx
Emperor
Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:18
  Old Post 01-12-2004 23:58
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#27 Report this post to a moderator
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I gave up giving 'feedback' a while ago.

Allot of you know better than I and there's nothing I say that'll change that.

There's a number of misconceptions about Feudalism in particular that I've attempted to dissuade elsewhere, but I don't know what I'm talking about.

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 00:10 Visit alexman's homepage!
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#28 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

There was a good opportunity to show us how good Feudalism is, a while back. Why didn't you?

UnOrthOdOx is offline UnOrthOdOx
Emperor
Hello....
Jun 2002
time: 22:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 00:19
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#29 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

Playing the NTTC game at the time, where I did put up a nice Feudal save somewhere. Someone even compared it to a Similar Democracy at the time and I'm surprised the difference wasn't greater, personally.

Repairing old house so that it would sell.

Moving once it sold.

A little thing called time and priorities, basically.

You can find said save here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=2

And said comparisons here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...30&pagenumber=3

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 02-12-2004 at 00:25

alexman is offline alexman
Emperor
Hunt Valley, MD
Jan 1970
time: 00:18
  Old Post 02-12-2004 00:28 Visit alexman's homepage!
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#30 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Everyone can voice their opinion here, which is heard and respected. But unless you can provide in-game examples that your arguments are valid, you can't expect to make others accept them.

As an example, see how Aeson changed our mind about how the Jaguar Warrior is appropriately priced in SP.

[Edit, after your edit: Thanks for the examples. However, even with that evidence, you have to agree that Feudalism is at best a niche government. And comparing feudalism to Democracy is not fair, because Democracy is another underpowered government in C3C! Let's take this to the government thread, if you like.]

Last edited by alexman on 02-12-2004 at 00:46

 
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