02-12-2004 02:35									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin There is a big problem with judging quality out that far as much of the problems that arise are due to owner misuse or lack of proper maintance. How do you reliably tell real design and manufacturing problems from problems caused by neglect or misuse in a 10 year old car? Also automanufacturing has changed alot in the last decade so those results won't necisarily reflect on cars being built today. Ten years ago Mercedes-Benz was the highest ranked car and today they're cars have below average quality.

The reason Mercedes-Benz' quality is in the shitter is because it was bought out by someone who messed with things...you know who.

	02-12-2004 02:36									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Also your opinion on British cars seems to be old fashioned and not based upon reality as well. True, Land Rovers are crap but Jaguar is the best built mass market car made in Europe; Porche has better ratings but it only builds specialty cars in small numbers.

Jaguar's quality is decent, but it's an exception and they're a fortune.

Porsche is not British, my friend.

My opinion of long-term car quality is based on reality, Oerdin. It's you that comes up with the funniest excuses behind the hard-hitting evidence.

	02-12-2004 02:41									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The reason Mercedes-Benz' quality is in the shitter is because it was bought out by someone who messed with things...you know who.

Nope, check back to before the merger and you'll see their qualty slide started around 1990. Also the study breaks it down by name plate so Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep's numbers don't effect Mercedes-Benz's numbers. Also Daimler-Benz bought Chrysler not the other way around.

	02-12-2004 02:42									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Porsche is not British, my friend.

I know. If you reread the post it says Jaguar has the highest quality in EUROPE if we don't count specalty makers like Porche.

	02-12-2004 02:44									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Asher And Consumer Reports and the Consumers Union.

That's funny because if you read Consumer Reports magazine then they come to dramatically different conclusions then you do. A real 180.

	02-12-2004 02:49									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That's funny because if you read Consumer Reports magazine then they come to dramatically different conclusions then you do. A real 180.

This is not true at all -- the figures I got are obtained by assigning weightings to the results consumer reports gives.

Methinks you have a selective memory and an absurd bias.

	02-12-2004 02:51									#97
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Kia is owned by Hyundai.

===

to the OP: I don't see why you just don't get a cheap old Trabant and be done with it.

	02-12-2004 03:56									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Asher This is not true at all -- the figures I got are obtained by assigning weightings to the results consumer reports gives. Methinks you have a selective memory and an absurd bias.

If consumer reports didn't charge for there web sire I'd show you. There magazine lists several different domestic and foreign models which they have determined are high in quality and will remain high in quality as the years go by.

I don't think it's me who has the outragous bias.

	02-12-2004 04:27									#99
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is there a list on the average cost to repair per problem experienced?

	02-12-2004 04:35									#100
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That would be truly interesting.

	02-12-2004 04:45									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin If consumer reports didn't charge for there web sire I'd show you. There magazine lists several different domestic and foreign models which they have determined are high in quality and will remain high in quality as the years go by. I don't think it's me who has the outragous bias.

I think it's just funny because the all of the Auto consumer report issues I've seen have always put the main Japanese vendors well above American vendors.

Go figure that this site goes with that.

I don't see why you think it's me who is biased -- I've provided sources -- very detailed ones, even -- collected from unbiased Consumer advocate groups, and you readily dismiss them with rhetoric and a JD Powers & Associates "long-term" study that consists of a pidly 3 years after ownership?

That's not going to cut it, Oerdin.

American cars are notoriously not nearly as reliable as the main Japanese cars.

Plus I have no reason to be biased -- I'm not Japanese.

IIRC, you are an American.

Do you know how bias works?

What's even funnier is you say the real consumer report magazines (as opposed to the fake ones I've seen, and the fake ones this site was based on) are a "real 180" from my argument. That would mean they say American cars are a lot more reliable than Japanese cars?

	02-12-2004 07:00									#102
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I can either trust you and how you lump all "American cars" together as junk or I can trust Consumer Reports & J.D. Powers. Hmmm, real journalists and analyists or Asher... Which shall it be?

	02-12-2004 07:07									#103
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Dude, my source is Consumer Reports.

The statistics speak for yourself.

You're out to lunch, man.

I'm the one quoting reputable sources about long-term reliability, you're the one quoting private companies with studies about short-term reliability and trying to pass it as long-term.

Nice dice, Oerdin...no dice.

	02-12-2004 11:49									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus from what I hear, depending on the type of the Civic/Golf, you're either a girl/gay, fast-and-the-furious-riceboy or just completely average and dull. No idea why that is. This applies less to newer models of the Civic though.

Two of the cars I'm thinking of buying are the Honda Civic coupe and the Volksagen GTI. So does that make me a fast-and-furious riceboy or just completely average and dull?

On second thoughts, don't answer that.

	02-12-2004 11:53									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Asher American cars are notoriously not nearly as reliable as the main Japanese cars.

That's generally true, but the Japanese cars also cost more on average so it's a bit of getting what you pay for.

Normally I wouldn't think about buying a North American car, but I sure do like the new Ford Mustang.

	02-12-2004 12:35									#106
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quote: That's generally true, but the Japanese cars also cost more on average so it's a bit of getting what you pay for.

That's the case in NA, perhaps, not here.

	02-12-2004 23:32									#107
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whats the most mileage on a used car that you would consider still buying.

	03-12-2004 00:35									#108
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180k kms for petrol
220k kms for diesel