01-12-2004 21:44									#1
	Recommend me a car...again. Put an end to popups!

I'm really trying not to crash another car this time.

Anyhoo, I got 2000-5000 euros to spend on a used car. No older than 1995, less than 200k kms on it (maybe a little more if it's a diesel), a petrol or turbo diesel, at least 100hp, big enough for me (6'3-ish, 195cm) to fit in it, power steering and central door locking.

My shortlist so far:

Chrysler Stratus (1995/96)
Mazda 626 (1995)
Ford Mondeo (1996/97)
Honda Accord (1995/96)
Opel Vectra (1995/96)

Outsiders:

Ford Probe (1995/96)
Chevrolet Beretta (1995/97)
Opel Calibra (1995)
BMW 316 (1995)
Peugeot 406 (1995, diesel)
BMW 325 (1995, diesel)
Ford Scorpio (1995/97, diesel)
Ford Scorpio (1995/97)
Opel Omega (1995/96)
Opel Omega (1995/96, diesel)
Honda Accord (1995/96, diesel)

Does anyone have any experience with any of those models? Especially the Stratus (sold in the US under the Dodge brand)? Is it any good? Or does anyone know of any cars I may not have looked at (and no funky American models that aren't on sale here :P)?

	01-12-2004 21:48									#2
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I own a Probe and it's a good car but the electric lighting system is rather dodgy. It burns out head lights and interior lights faster then any car I've ever owned. 3-4 per year each. Also the Probe is basted upon the 1993-199? Mazda 626 so I'd take the 626 off of your shortlist as it will likely have the same problem.

Personally, I'd go for the Accord especially if you could find a low milage one.

	01-12-2004 21:48									#3
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BTW the first generation Stratus had quality problems so I'd avoid that model as well.

	01-12-2004 21:50									#4
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Two things that are important: reliability, and Kilometers per euro spent on fuel.

	01-12-2004 21:52									#5
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Chrysler Stratus (1995/96) NO
Mazda 626 (1995) GOOD
Ford Mondeo (1996/97) NO
Honda Accord (1995/96) GREAT
Opel Vectra (1995/96) NO

	01-12-2004 21:53									#6
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Asher's ratings.

	01-12-2004 21:58									#7
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Thanks Oerdin!

Azazel: Indeed. I can calculate the milage per gallon (or liters per km anyways) but I have no idea how reliable any of those cars are, having never owned one for more than 6 months before totalling them.

Asher, what do you base your ratings on? And you're Canadian! Do they even sell Opel's there? (maybe they do, what do I know?)

	01-12-2004 22:00									#8
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I can vouche for Honda's quality. I own an Accord myself.

Does Honda not sell the Civic over there? It's somewhat smaller, but you can get a newer one w/less mileage, 'cause it's cheaper than the Accord, and still a solid car.

-Arrian

	01-12-2004 22:03									#9
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SM: how do you calculate? do you consider where do you mostly drive? that 13kms/liter( a reasonable number, really) could turn into 5-6 real fast in the city, keep it in mind.
As to reliability, it's always tricky, and with second-hand cars, it's really a wild card. Just check out maintenance costs in advance, that's the best idea. I trust japanese cars in that section.

	01-12-2004 22:03									#10
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Civic

	01-12-2004 22:07									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Asher, what do you base your ratings on? And you're Canadian! Do they even sell Opel's there? (maybe they do, what do I know?)

I base upon reliability.

Honda is very, very reliable, and Mazda is very reliable.

I'm well aware of Opel/Vauxhalls, and also know their reliability is well below Mazda & Honda.

	01-12-2004 22:10									#12
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Before I went off to college a year and a half ago I had a '91 Accord which had pretty much no major problems and was able to make long roadtrips no problem. I drove from Virginia back to Houston in a day. Now my father uses it with still no problems and it's nearly 15 years old. I'm definitely getting a Civic or Accord when I get a car.

	01-12-2004 22:11									#13
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Apoc, how much does it cost in repairs, per annum?

	01-12-2004 22:15									#14
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Oh, you asked about the Stratus:

In general, Chrysler/Dodge sucks ass. IIRC, I got the Stratus as a rental care when I went out to Colorado to ski earlier this year. It was ok, but it was also pretty much brand new. I'd check the reliability ratings in something like Consumer Reports. Unless there has been some miraculous turnaround, Dodge will not place highly.

-Arrian

	01-12-2004 22:17									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel Apoc, how much does it cost in repairs, per annum?

It cost less than $200 in 2003, IIRC. That was pretty much all in preventive maintence too.

	01-12-2004 22:18									#16
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excellent!

	01-12-2004 22:20									#17
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Yeah. That doesnt include oil changes or anything. It was mainly some problem with the break fluid system (can't remember what exactly) and some other minor problems. The A/C even still worked well. Stereo was new though.

	01-12-2004 22:21									#18
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I've spent some 300USD, this year. ( And I've got a paint and metal job of some 250USD, waiting, but that's not the car's fault )

	01-12-2004 22:30									#19
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Azazel: Of most of those cars I have the specs for kms to the liter for high way, city roads, and combined.

Apocalypse: that's dirt cheap for a car that age!

Arrian: they do sell Civics over here, but they have a bit of the VW Golf's reputation when it comes to the percieved image of the owners (for whatever that's worth).

I found some reliability indexes of some UK website (reliabilityindex.co.uk). Low = good, high = bad.

Neon (they apparantly don't sell the Stratus in the UK): 86
Accord: 62
Vectra: 85
Mondeo 1: 80
Mondeo 2: 42
Probe: 152
Scorpio: 171
626: 16
406: 69
Laguna: 170
3-series: 76
Omega: 60
Calibra: 174

I have no idea how accurate those ratings are, but based on it, the Accord, Mondeo, 626, 406 and Omega do well while Probe, Scorpio, Laguna and Calibra don't fair so well.

	01-12-2004 22:35									#20
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quote: Arrian: they do sell Civics over here, but they have a bit of the VW Golf's reputation when it comes to the percieved image of the owners (for whatever that's worth).

Sorry, I've no idea what that means. If you buy a Civic you're a girly man or something?

-Arrian

	01-12-2004 22:36									#21
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quote: Arrian: they do sell Civics over here, but they have a bit of the VW Golf's reputation when it comes to the percieved image of the owners (for whatever that's worth).

	01-12-2004 22:40									#22
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I drive a 1998 Civic-- Its a solid little car and in 6 years its been pretty much oil changes and 1 brake overhaul

I don't care about the image thing-- its reasonably priced and super car

( it just feels odd when I go from it to our mini-van or vice-versa)

	01-12-2004 22:40									#23
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from what I hear, depending on the type of the Civic/Golf, you're either a girl/gay, fast-and-the-furious-riceboy or just completely average and dull. No idea why that is. This applies less to newer models of the Civic though.

	01-12-2004 22:46									#24
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Confucious say: image not everything. Buy Civic now, buy kickass car next time.

...

Fast 'n Furious Rice Boy So they pimp out Civics across the pond as well, then? I've NEVER understood that. My finace's brother drives a Civic. With the gold package (ugh!), the fancy muffler and rims. Silly boy.

-Arrian

	01-12-2004 22:46									#25
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Civics hold their value well, are fun to drive and very reliable.

Accords have similar virtues, but are tarnished with an "Old man in a hat" image.

Don't buy a Vauxhall. Especially not a mid-90's Vectra. They're awful.

Mazda 626 is reliable, but pretty dull. They improved with redesigns.

Chryslers are cheap but dated, and don't handle well.

Probes are crap.

Calibras are just Cavaliers in a bodykit. Pretty crude and overpriced.

	01-12-2004 22:47									#26
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Add the Nissan Primera to your list. They're pretty ugly, but handle well and are practically indestructible. Cheap 2nd hand, too.

	01-12-2004 22:48									#27
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Accord most reliable, just get a good security system or egg crates for seats

	01-12-2004 22:51									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Saint Marcus Asher, what do you base your ratings on? And you're Canadian! Do they even sell Opel's there? (maybe they do, what do I know?)

Asher has an irrational fear of American cars and so he doesn't like German made Chevrolets.

	01-12-2004 22:52									#29
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It's not an irrational fear, American and Korean cars are crap.

That said, so are British cars.

	01-12-2004 22:55									#30
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You might want to look at a Subaru as they're relatively cheap second hand (at least in the US) but offer good reliability plus they have a good combination of performance and safety. Considering your driving record safety should be considered.