02-12-2004 11:32									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Jon Miller Is this what teenagers claimed or what the people actually taught?

This is what's being taught in Jacksonville.

	02-12-2004 11:48									#32
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quote: Where your comparison falls down is that you don't have an entire culture encouraging their youth to become drug users.

I don't know about that. I would agree that our society's degree of sexualization is stronger by far, but I certainly don't agree that drug use isn't glamourized, particularly gateway drugs like weed.

quote: Barring that, I'd rather have no sex ed than this abstinence only crap

	02-12-2004 12:44									#33
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Well, I can speak from experience, I've passed this crap only some 8 years ago.

Sex ed is important. My parents wouldn't touch it with a 6-foot pole, and basically, I would be left completely in the dark, 'cept stupid kid rumors, without sex ed. They just sort vaguely asked me if I knew anything about the mechanics in the 11th grade ( ), then I just told them to shut up, and "yes, I know everything about it."

Drugs? well, I guess the difference is that I thought I could be poisoned by just touching a drug. However drugs are bad. Sex isn't.

	02-12-2004 13:20									#34
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quote: However drugs are bad. Sex isn't.

It's not nearly as black and white as that...

	02-12-2004 13:45									#35
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quote: Many American youngsters participating in federally funded abstinence-only programs have been taught over the past three years that abortion can lead to sterility and suicide,

Very true. You know what happens when they perforate a uterus?

quote: that half the gay male teenagers in the United States have tested positive for the AIDS virus,

Is it? All I hear from the nay side is that this obviously cannot be true.

quote: and that touching a person's genitals "can result in pregnancy," a congressional staff analysis has found.

Also true. It's hard to do without.

	02-12-2004 13:52									#36
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quote: • A 43-day-old fetus is a "thinking person."

This child.



This is a little later, but probably the best image I can find right now.

quote: • HIV, the virus that causes AIDS, can be spread via sweat and tears.

This surprises me. Why would they have this in there?

quote: • Condoms fail to prevent HIV transmission as often as 31 percent of the time in heterosexual intercourse.

Yes, Condoms aren't that good at preventing HIV transmission. They may prevent pregnency, but not STDs.

	02-12-2004 13:56									#37
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quote: In some cases, Waxman said in an interview, the factual issues were limited to occasional misinterpretations of publicly available data; in others, the materials pervasively presented subjective opinions as scientific fact.

Well, then I suppose we trust him to decide what counts as 'pervasive', and what does not. In any application of any curricula, you are going to find mistakes made.

	02-12-2004 14:26									#38
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quote: particularly gateway drugs like weed.

BS! Most specifically the gateway word.

	02-12-2004 15:04									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi This child.

It has as much brain power as a chicken. Probably even less.

	02-12-2004 16:15									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger It has as much brain power as a chicken. Probably even less.

Lets kill all the stupid people then!

	02-12-2004 16:23									#41
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I'll drown my beliefs
To have you be in peace
I'll dress like your niece
To wash your swollen feet

Just don't leave, don't leave

And true love waits
In haunted attics
And true love wins
On lollipops and crisps

Just don't leave, don't leave

I'm not living
I'm just killing time
Your tiny hands
Your crazy kiss and smile

Just lonely, lonely..
Just lonely, lonely..

	02-12-2004 16:40									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

What that picture lacks is a scale. That fetus is about 1/10 inch tall (assuming the age is 6 weeks): the size of a grain of rice. What you're seeing aren't brains, eyes and liver, but things that will eventually grow to become those organs.

	02-12-2004 16:47									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi '....that half the gay male teenagers in the United States have tested positive for the AIDS virus,' Is it? All I hear from the nay side is that this obviously cannot be true.

Gosh, yes, I can just envisage all the gay male teenagers in the United States publicising the results of their H.I.V. tests.


Who has been testing all the gay male teenagers in the United States and publishing their test results with or without their consent?

Where are these figures kept, and by whom?

Frankly, even a casual interrogation of the basis for such a statement reveals the agenda behind it.

"Yes, Condoms aren't that good at preventing HIV transmission."

Obi Gyn


Well, gosh, Obi Gyn, let's see your authority for such a statement.

	02-12-2004 16:52									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Yes, Condoms aren't that good at preventing HIV transmission. They may prevent pregnency, but not STDs.

Latex condoms are very effective. If someone's using a lamb skin condom then my guess is they had one of these miseducation, abstinence only sex ed courses.

	02-12-2004 16:55									#45
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Lamb skin condom? Is that some roundabout way of engaging in beastiality?

	02-12-2004 16:58									#46
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Nope, most condoms used to be made out of lamb skin but as plastics became better latex became the standard. Today you can still find lamb skin condoms at the drug store but lamb skin doesn't stop HIV so for the last 20 years doctors have been trying to discourage their use.

	02-12-2004 16:58									#47
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Lamb skin condom? Is that some roundabout way of engaging in beastiality?

Precursor to the latex variety, used by the likes of the Romans, British Regency rakes, and Giacomo Casanova.


In Japan they used tortoiseshell sheaths....

	02-12-2004 16:59									#48
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*Shudder*

	02-12-2004 17:01									#49
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs *Shudder*

Could be worse- they could use the fingers crossed and hope for the best method....

	02-12-2004 17:03									#50
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Could be? That's the method fundies are trying to have taught.

@ this insanity.

	02-12-2004 17:09									#51
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If someone says condoms don't have an extremely high rate of stopping STDs then either their full of it or they're talking about lamb skin. If the couple knows how to properly put on the condom; i.e. pinch the tip to get the air out, leave a bit extra at the top, roll it back and don't put on petroluem jelly which can damage the latex then they're damn near fool proof.

Of course sex ed which teaches young people helpful little things like that is exactly what the fundies want to put a stop to.

	02-12-2004 17:17									#52
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You can still buy lamb skin condoms?!

	02-12-2004 17:23									#53
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Some people are allergic to latex I guess.

	02-12-2004 17:24									#54
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Good point, I've never seen them though.

	02-12-2004 17:25									#55
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH You can still buy lamb skin condoms?!

There are two brands on the market that I can think of though I've never used them.

	02-12-2004 17:26									#56
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quote: In Japan they used tortoiseshell sheaths....

They're awesome...

	02-12-2004 17:26									#57
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On CG my laughter at that would be considered ironic.

	02-12-2004 17:30									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Nonsense. It may not merit A1, but Abstinence Only Ed has been under attack for a long time from a variety of quarters for just this kind of problem. Having a Congressional report document the abuse of both our tax dollars and our children's minds is long overdue.

If they were serious about simply informing the public they wouldn't release a bunch of wild anecdotes in place of some statistics which could put this into perpective. This happens all too often with congressional reports, and Dan S is right about Waxman. It's his full time job to be outraged at the wildest things he can cull from a mountain of evidence.

	02-12-2004 17:56									#59
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Allow me to sign off with a joke done in poor taste.*

spoiler(highlight to read): A lover spits. A true love swallows. A show-off gargles.

*Apologies for the pun.

* DRoseDARs signs off for the night.

	02-12-2004 18:22									#60
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Just because the sex ed program has errors in it, does not mean that we should automatically throw out all abstinence programs. The answer is to fix the errors so that the material gives students correct information. The concept of abstinence is good, you just have to teach it right.