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Max Sinister
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OK. So we'll have groups of little people instead of one person representing armies. I wonder whether the number of people would equal the "life points" of a unit.
Somehow, Civ is becoming more like Warcraft (judging only from its new look). Similar as with the German game "The Settlers 5". (Many old fans criticized that.)
The second screenshot looked as if there were little villages in the country outside the big cities. I wonder whether they represent worked tiles.
The old Civ3 screenshot with the units actually didn't look that bad, BTW.
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Brent
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I would actually prefer graphics more on the level of Civ1 or Civ2 because I don't see the point of the high system requirements, but I accept that other people want good graphics.
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:17
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I actually think the graphics look okay, especially the terrain. The cities and units leave room for improvement though.
quote:
Originally posted by Brent
I had thought that maybe they should have stuck with old code, I figured it worked well enough, but I guess there are things I want it to be able to do that it needed new code for? |
With the old code it's impossible to do things like XML and Python, those have to be integrated from the start. Building it into an existing codebase later on is usually more work than starting from scratch.
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About multiplayer, were they playing it in Civ3 early in development? |
Since they didn't add it until the expansion packs, I'm guessing they didn't...
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I guess i've kind of resigned myself to be content if there are only 8 civs. |
A little more than that, I think.
All Civ games so far have had somewhere between 12 and 20 (from the top of my head) civs, I think it's safe to assume Civilization 4 won't be much different. But based on those screenshots all we know for sure is that the Germans are in 
But if you were hoping they'd include 100 civs or more, yeah, odds are you're going to be disappointed. But you knew that, right? 
quote:
Originally posted by Donegeal
Did anyone notice that the tiles are squares? And that the squares are NOT angled 45 degrees? Its a flat square just like Civ I. |
Good point. I guess they can do that now that it's fully 3D, orientation doesn't make a difference then. Squares is more intuitive than diamonds.
Or maybe you can rotate the map and see them any way you like, like in Dungeon Keeper?
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People over in the CFC thread have pointed out the one directly to the left looks like a Buddha symbol... maybe that shows the city's religion? |
That makes sense.
The arrows vaguely remind me of a recycling symbol, but since the map only shows ancient units, that seems unlikely.
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Brent
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Didn't Civ1 have only 6 or 8 civs? I noticed the synopsis of new information didn't directly say anything about being able to add new civs when it talked about modding, but it did talk about creating worlds and historical situations. Maybe it would be more difficult to create new civs with the new graphics, but is it possible that there are any major editing functions that either Civ2 or 3 had that Civ4 won't? Or at least any major areas where the editability is seriously deficient?
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Locutus
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ACS CTP1/2 Manager & Civ4 Co-Manager
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Hengelo, The Netherlands
Nov 1999
time: 06:17
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Civ1 civs, from the top of my head:
1) Romans (white)
2) Russians (white)
3) French (blue)
4) Germans (blue)
5) English (purple)
6) Greek (purple)
7) Egyptians (yellow)
8) Aztec (yellow)
9) Babylonians (green)
10) Zulu (green)
11) Indians (grey)
12) Mongols (grey)
13) Chinese (light blue)
14) Americans (light blue)
Christ, it's been at least 5 years and I still remember them all (at least I'm fairly certain I did, might have forgotten a colour...)
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Maybe it would be more difficult to create new civs with the new graphics |
I don't think it would be much more difficult to do than making good looking graphics for Civ3: those are usually created using 3D models. So rather than converting those models to sprites and importing those in Civ3, the 3D models can presumably be imported into Civ4 directly (and if a custom file format is used, I'd assume Firaxis would make plugins for popular 3D software available). I think it would actually be an advantage: there would be less graphics out there as one can no longer design graphics with simple 2D programs like Paint, but the quality of what *is* out there will be higher, as only somewhat capable graphics people have the skills to make new graphics.
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Or at least any major areas where the editability is seriously deficient? |
Compared to Civ3, I can't imagine that, that game wasn't very moddable at all. Compared to Civ2 or CtP2, that would be a much bigger challenge. But if all the static data is in XML and all the graphics/sounds/etc are all in standard file formats (or in formats for which tools are made available by Firaxis), then the key issue will be how well Python will be hooked into the game engine. Civ2 should be easy to supercede as its event language was awfully simple (though still fairly revolutionairy for its time), CtP2 considerably harder but it's by no means impossible.
Last edited by Locutus on 03-12-2004 at 23:19
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Brent
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I still want Civ4 to have multiple graphics modes, maybe even with modes similar to Civ2 or Civ3. It might be good for having a wider variety of scenarios if the graphics are simpler for them.
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Brent
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Most of those civs do sound like they would have been in. I guess you'd be right.
I don't really care as much about the quality I'd be able to do with the graphics as much as being able to get something done without too much effort or particularly time. I don't think I'd qualify as a capable graphics person at all. I have an illogical aversion to downloading things for the game, but I guess there would be at least some stuff in expansions on disc.
I care more about the kind of modding the Civ3 editor more easily did than what the Civ2 editor did.
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:17
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Wow Locutus, you are being very optimistic on this one... I am for nw very much worried about some of the design decisions. The map view on the screen - I know the graphics will change, but notice how you can't tell where tiles are and what terrain type each one is - I hope it's not what Firaxis are aiming for.
Zooming in? It sounds good, but it also worries me. Will it mean that we'll have to use zoom? Notice the text on the second screen. I want to never be forced to rotate or zoom the view as in some 3D RTS game, this is Civ, dammit! As a disclaimer, I don't care for graphics in Civ as long as they are not downright ugly and confusing.
The individual units gaining experience sounds like it sucks to me, too. This is no RPG or Warcraft - if I have a dozen Knights, why should some of them have extra abilities? Gaining extra HP or such is fine, but not extra abilities.
I am eagerly awaiting the word on combat system (they need to get rid of the current one in favor of something else), terrain improvement (move 120 workers a turn again ?!?) and complexity (please please don't dumb the game down).
That being said, I know that I will still buy Civ4 regardless .
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Solver
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Apolyton Duke Of Something
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Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:17
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quote:
Not really. I'm realistic as always, in this case (since we know so little) mostly cautious. But slightly optimistic since I have faith in Soren and what little we have seen is promising (remember that modding is the most important thing for me ). |
I have faith in Soren as well... but what we have seen is both promising and alarming, like when they said they'd cut some aspects of the game, make mini-games, and whatnot. I'm cautious because of those points.
Modding is great, and I'm delighted that it will be supported very well. But, all that aside, I still want a game that does not need to have any mods to be playable, which is good out of the box. Besides, you know that I prefer to settle then for one or two variants and play those. But modding support is, of course, great.
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Personally I think it's nice to be able to change things around. However, I'm sure it'll be possible to pick one view and stick with it for most of if not the entire game. |
If that's the case, I'm happy. What I don't want to see is a game that requires me to use zooming.
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Brent
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Well maybe I'll be able to do some of the modding I want to do on my own at least. Maybe I'd mainly want to add new Civs, and hopefully I could get away with using the standard units with different colors applied. It's sounding like if there's going to be that much more trouble modding it would be much more useful for the game to release with at least a few more civs than previous versions, like 45, and that civ library expansion idea at least one person had is sounding much more useful. But like I said, I can live without having tons of obscure civs. And it would be nice if Civ would use the kind of technology I hear The Sims has, so ruler animations don't take so much effort.
I may be easy to please in regards to editors. Mostly I want to still be able to do what I could in Civ3, more easily, and more intuitively, and be able to store more civs than Civ3 could, and be able to group city names by internal region and such.
I definitely want to be able to keep track of compass directions. I don't want to accidentally send a unit in the wrong direction. I think there should be a default orientation that you can always return to, and maybe in addition to the arrow keys you can type in N, NE, etc.
Unit abilities don't bother me.
I want to be able to mod, but I don't want to have to mod in order to do everything I want to do. There's the number of civs again.
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Brent
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I think there are plenty of games out there that aren't good for kids. I want Civ to be good for all ages including kids.
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CyberShy
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Delft, The Netherlands
Mar 1999
time: 06:17
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Can all you "I've seen 2 screenshots and I already made my mind up: the game will suck" guys move over to CFC and pester the firaxis guys away from there, so they'll move back to overhere? Thanks! That would be great!
quote:
About multiplayer, were they playing it in Civ3 early in development? |
Yes, they were playing already. In the early days we even tried to get the code, which was in the game, to work. (like in the early civ2 days we tried, and managed to, get the civ2 mp code to work)
But for cIIIv it never worked. apparantly they started writing the code, but never finished it.
On the official cIIIv site it said for a very long time that it would include multiplayer. Then we kept on asking about it, since we didn't hear anything about mp for some reason anymore. We kept on pm and asking the firaxis guys. And one day the 'includes mp' line was suddenly gone.
I don't think this will happen again, but just want to be honest: cIIIv vanilla was said to include mp as well.
I do like what I see so far in this thread about cIV!
I'm optimistic. I love cIIIv as well, eventhough there's much critic. Pherhaps I'm easy to please, but in fact I think I'm just not very "It must be 100% the way I want it to be."
that 's the main problem with everyone.
Firaxis should release 1000000 different cIV's, that would please everyone
The bottom line is: please, don't start complaining at this point already.
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03-12-2004 20:26
They look like something a 5 year old would draw 
).
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