03-12-2004 06:05									#1
	First Civ 4 Screenshots! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Can find info here on the CFC main page.

http://www.civfanatics.com

	03-12-2004 06:16									#2
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These shots were cropped screenies scanned in from the PC Gamer magazine, so they aren't the greatest quality. Also, it's over a year out from release so there's going to be a LOT of work yet to be done on the graphics. A year's worth of change will likely mean the game will end up looking nothing like these shots.

In any case, there's some interesting info to be gleaned from the shots.

Last edited by Trip on 04-12-2004 at 03:56

	03-12-2004 06:17									#3
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Shots removed at PC Gamer's request.

Last edited by Trip on 04-12-2004 at 03:56

	03-12-2004 06:28									#4
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Is it just me, or does anyone else think that those graphics look worse than Civ 3?

	03-12-2004 06:28									#5
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This is a joke right? I mean why would they give out stuff that has to be grossly pre-alpha (to say the least)?

	03-12-2004 06:30									#6
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No, it's real... those shots are scanned in from the January edition of PC Gamer.

quote: Originally posted by Wycoff Is it just me, or does anyone else think that those graphics look worse than Civ 3?

Civ IV is a long ways from release. This is very early artwork (I'm surprised they did show it, actually), and Pirates was the project most of the artists were working on until it was released not too long ago. Now that it's finished Civ IV will have a much larger art team working on it.

I suspect the graphics will change quite a bit between now and release.

	03-12-2004 06:32									#7
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Ahh, yes, Pirates! was exactly what came to mind. And yeah, it has to be very very preliminary stuff. The city names are in Comic Sans for crying out loud.

	03-12-2004 06:41									#8
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Graphics are ugly indeed.

Are those two health bars we seeing?

	03-12-2004 06:41									#9
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For anyone who thinks the graphics look bad, compare some of the early shots of Civ 3 with the current game:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=30

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=28

These shots if Civ 3 were released only in May of 2001, and Civ 3 was released only 5 months later in October. Civ IV is at least a year away.

	03-12-2004 06:41									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I suspect the graphics will change quite a bit between now and release.

I hope so, because these graphics are horrible.

	03-12-2004 06:43									#11
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For the lazy:
From the article

quote: * Development is being headed by creator Sid Meier himself. * Civ IV has been written entirely from scratch. * The 3D engine will allow you to zoom smoothly from a global view all the way down to a single city. * Individual units will gain experience and acquire new upgrades such as bonuses against specific enemy types and the ability to use enemy roads. * No more spearmen defeating tanks. * Besides incorporating new technologies, the tech tree has been changed to allow radically different research paths to the same high-level technologies. Now you won’t have to follow a strict research path to be competitive later in the game – a design that opens up a whole new world of possibilities. * Civilization IV has been designed to fully support the mod community. The game is written using flexible XML data files and the Python scripting language so that modders will have no trouble at all creating their own personalized worlds, units, technologies, and historical events. Advanced modders will even be able to control the AI. * Civ4 has been designed from the outset to include the multiplayer mode. You will be able to team up in co-op mode against the AI or other teams of players, and a random-map generator ensures an equal start.

	03-12-2004 06:44									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Alex I hope so, because these graphics are horrible.

Actually, I should correct myself... the graphics will change quite a bit... a year's worth of artwork done by a rather large team is still in the future...

	03-12-2004 06:45									#13
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Sounds like a very promising game though.

	03-12-2004 06:49									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Trip For anyone who thinks the graphics look bad, compare some of the early shots of Civ 3 with the current game: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=30 http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=28 These shots if Civ 3 were released only in May of 2001, and Civ 3 was released only 5 months later in October. Civ IV is at least a year away.

Hmmpf, them graphics look better than the ones in the released game.

	03-12-2004 06:50									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Trip For anyone who thinks the graphics look bad, compare some of the early shots of Civ 3 with the current game: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=30 http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy...ns.html?page=28 These shots if Civ 3 were released only in May of 2001, and Civ 3 was released only 5 months later in October. Civ IV is at least a year away.

Those screenies aren't so bad. The citizen faces are silly though, but they are obviously placeholders.

	03-12-2004 06:50									#16
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Whether you like the old style or not, my point is that things can change quite a bit very quickly.

	03-12-2004 07:12									#17
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Yeah, things will certainly change a lot, these first screenshots are obviously from an alpha build... But I'll admit that I don't understand why 3D is so much better than 2D... Looking at the screenshots, I think that the basic graphic engine is ready to go (it's going to be refined and polished and enhanced from here on), and, frankly, I think that a 2D engine would work perfectly too.

(And no, I don't care about the ability to zoom all the way from the Milky Way to the nail in the foot of one of my citizens)

	03-12-2004 08:07									#18
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Those graphics don't really bother me much.

headed by Sid: good.

Zooming: good but not really necessary.

Spearmen/ Tanks: Darn!

Different research paths: cool.

Creating personalized worlds: Alien ones?

Historical events: cool.

Control AI: very cool.

	03-12-2004 13:56									#19
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quote: * Development is being headed by creator Sid Meier himself.

we all know that this means that he's just involved by playing the game and giving some creative input. Soren is the real boss. That's

quote: * Civ IV has been written entirely from scratch.

This is without any doubt the best! No longer bugs that can't be solved because of 'old code'

quote: * The 3D engine will allow you to zoom smoothly from a global view all the way down to a single city.

I do actually like the zoom option. Not the zoom-in option, which I fairly don't care about. But the zoom-out option. I really miss the overview I had in civ2. The world map, or the continental map.

quote: * Individual units will gain experience and acquire new upgrades such as bonuses against specific enemy types and the ability to use enemy roads.

Sounds interesting

quote: * No more spearmen defeating tanks.

Oh my, as if that happened oftenly. Pherhaps I experienced this 3 times in 4 years. It's just only a favourite thing to mourn about. I just don't hope that this means that stronger units always beat weaker units, that would defenitely suck. I love the cIIIv model.

quote: * Besides incorporating new technologies, the tech tree has been changed to allow radically different research paths to the same high-level technologies. Now you won’t have to follow a strict research path to be competitive later in the game – a design that opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

A more flexible tech-tree sounds promising. I'm curious how they'll work it out. I would love it if different nations can follow different pahts of the tech-tree, and for that reason miss certain techs.
The 'trading tech' thing should be reconcidered as well in this case. It cannot be that two players follow a totally different tech-path, but do still share it with each other though.

quote: * Civilization IV has been designed to fully support the mod community. The game is written using flexible XML data files and the Python scripting language so that modders will have no trouble at all creating their own personalized worlds, units, technologies, and historical events. Advanced modders will even be able to control the AI.

Good for the modders. Pherhaps I'll mod myself some stuff as well, though I know that I'll be most interested in the basic game anyway.

quote: * Civ4 has been designed from the outset to include the multiplayer mode. You will be able to team up in co-op mode against the AI or other teams of players, and a random-map generator ensures an equal start.

Yeah, that's what they said about cIIIv as well.
We know how things went anyway.
I don't believe it has multiplayer mode until I play it.

	03-12-2004 15:53									#20
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quote: Originally posted by alva Development is being headed by creator Sid Meier himself.

As mentioned by Cyber, probably not true. We know Soren is in charge.

quote: The 3D engine will allow you to zoom smoothly from a global view all the way down to a single city.

One of the things I love about CtP as well Especially in full 3D it should look good.

quote: No more spearmen defeating tanks.

I hope so, about time, after 12+ years...

quote: Besides incorporating new technologies, the tech tree has been changed to allow radically different research paths to the same high-level technologies. Now you won’t have to follow a strict research path to be competitive later in the game – a design that opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

A world of possibilities or a world of beelining to Tanks? Time will tell, I guess...

quote: Advanced modders will even be able to control the AI.

Overall, sounds promosing. But as usual with such early info, this article raises more questions than it answers

	03-12-2004 16:14									#21
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quote: Originally posted by CyberShy quote: * Civ IV has been written entirely from scratch. This is without any doubt the best! No longer bugs that can't be solved because of 'old code'

So we get bugs that can't be solved because of 'new code'
IIRC, Civ3 was programmed from scratch already.

I don't think starting out all over again all the time is such an advantage. You have to do way more testing and the initial release will most likely be bug ridden.

	03-12-2004 16:24									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa IIRC, Civ3 was programmed from scratch already.

No, it was based on the SMAC engine.

	03-12-2004 17:49									#23
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Ouch!

Hope you people are right about this one. Heck, Civ 2 has nicer looking graphics...

Carolus

	03-12-2004 17:52									#24
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Don't bother about the grapics. They'll change!
This is the alpha mode.

	03-12-2004 18:06									#25
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That looks very ... Settlerish. Even more of a toy look than CivIV. I'd not object if the final gfx looked more strategic/abstract/CivIIish.

Individual unit bonuses? Am I the only one who senses some huge micromanagement here?

	03-12-2004 18:14									#26
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Obviously these are alpha graphics that will change a lot. They are probably just meant to show us that civ4 will be 3D.

The info does sound promising. I will wait before getting excited about anything. I am not going to do like I did for civ3 where as soon as the first artwork and screenshots were released I as drooling at mouth with anticipation only to be dissapointed after playing the game. I am going to wait until the game is released and then make a careful decision if the game is worth buying or not.

	03-12-2004 18:46									#27
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Soren or Sid, doesn't make a huge difference to me.

I had thought that maybe they should have stuck with old code, I figured it worked well enough, but I guess there are things I want it to be able to do that it needed new code for?

Apparantly you will be able to see what buildings are actually in your city from a view of several tiles, which is cool.

I may be at a much greater disadvantage not being able to defeat a Tank with a Spearman. Maybe it will be easier to keep up technologically and upgrade?

About multiplayer, were they playing it in Civ3 early in development?

I guess i've kind of resigned myself to be content if there are only 8 civs.

I kind of prefer the general look of the screenshots over more realistic graphics.

	03-12-2004 19:14									#28
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I don't care about pictures very much, and certainly not at this point. The info though... The more, the better. The info we've got so far isn't much, it it's something. I'm looking forward to this game, but I will try to do as I "managed" last time, to not have high and unrealistic hopes, like a few on this site had to Civ3...

	03-12-2004 19:39									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Wycoff Is it just me, or does anyone else think that those graphics look worse than Civ 3?

It looks a lot worse. Here's hoping Firaxis makes some major changes before the release.

	03-12-2004 20:10									#30
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Of course they will... Read what has been said here so far, guys.