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Sarsstock
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Truley a game ahead of its time Panzer General II was!! I remember the Savanah campaign well. Didn't they imply in the game that your invasion of Savanah was to create a "Southern Front" against America in addition to a "Northern Front" somewhere in the North East?
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Sarsstock
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Exactly, why bother creating an amry Harry? Just give Bruce Willis a submachine gun and I'm sure he'll work everything out just fine in time for Christmas.
YIPPY KAYAEE M*$&@*!($*& !!
Seriously though, will the Reaper appear as a special "super" unit for Germany like in the first Atomic Eagle or would that cause too many problems with the AI having to control him? Maybe he could appear as a non-moving unit with no attack value, and if the American forces destroy him they get a huge cash bonus resulting from the rise in moral they'd get for killing the German invasion commander.
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Leonidas
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quote:
Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
I think I may have a second front open up, but I just have to pinpoint where I could do it... |
Harry:
If you are looking for another area to open a second front, then I have included the German General Staff's actual historical plans for invading the United States at the turn of the century.
GERMANY'S HISTORICAL PLANS FOR INVADING THE UNITED STATES
Germany's initial plans for invading the United States are clearly detailed, in part, by Michael Gannon, in his bestselling book Operation Drumbeat (Harper & Row: New York, NY, 1990).
In 1899, the German Admiralty Staff had prepared a detailed contingency plan for a "joint Navy-Army invasion of the United States. The plan called for a direct assault on New York Harbor including the initial landing of two to three battalions of infantry and one battalion of engineers on Long Island.
From New York the combined naval and land forces would spread north to Boston and south to Norfolk. The plan presumed 33.3 percent naval superiority. It also presumed complete surprise. On the latter point the plan foundered, since few navy staffers thought that a large Atlantic invasion fleet could escape detection over three thousand miles of crossing" (p.69).
As an alternative to the above plan, consideration was given to initially seizing Puerto Rico, but this gave way "in 1900 to a Marschplan (plan of advance) that called for a German armada out of Wilhelmshaven to descend on either New York or Boston through Provincetown as a Stutzpunkt (base of operations).
The revised plan envisioned a landing force of one hundred thousand men that would have to be transported to the Cape Cod peninsula. . .
Though the Marschplan against America would never come up as action item on either the Kaiser's or the Fuhrer's agenda, it continued to fascinate naval officers of the strategic mind like" Admiral Karl Donitz, commander in chief of U-boats (Ibid., pp.69-70; for a summary see Holger H. Herwig, Politics of Frustration: The United States in German Naval Planning, 1889-1941, Little Brown: Boston, 1976, chapter 2).
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Sarsstock
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If anyone is interested on further reading on Germany's hypothetical invasion of America at the turn of the century then I suggest "1901" by Robert Conroy. THe books does a respectable job in depicting how such an invasion would have unfolded and how America would have responded. Its not the greatest alternate history novel by far, but it makes for an interesting read.
Back to the game now. By 1947 things were a little different than they were at the turn of the century. There was a world of difference in American naval rediness, not to mention America's ability to move units to the front lines via road and rail networks, especially in the North East. This could easily frighten German warplanners, the thought of meeting overwelming resistace before they can break out of their beacheads. At the same time, it might be hard for German planners to resist the idea of taking America's commercial capital in the opening phase of the attack. In the end, for an attack on New York State to succeed Germany would have to have overwelming naval and arms superiority. Definiatly the bulk of their American invasion force.
In my opinion, the invasion of the North East would be the sensible location for the bulk of the German invasion force, with the Mexican invasion serving as a secondary front, along with a possible invasion of Cuba with the intention of landing in Florida upon Cuba's conquest.
However, this is only one alternate historian's opinion.
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Sarsstock
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Well, you have most definatly peeked my curiosity Harry. I'm sure you won't let us down on this horrorific surprise of catastrophic proportions. Now in addition to serving as the official title designer for this scenario, I would like to take a crack at some of those "police" units I proposed earlier just for the heck of it. At best I'm only a "cut and paste" guy, but I think I could turn out something gif worthy.
My question is what do you imagine the police looking like? The NYPD classic full length dark blue police coat? The State Police brown shirt and beige slacks? The small town Andy Griffith sheriff? Maybe you could have all three units giving the NYPD the highest defensive value, the state trooper the best mobility and the town sheriff could be cheap and easy to build in large numbers. Just another thought....
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AGRICOLA
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Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:16
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Although slightly larger and heavier, this 6-engined "crate" was considerably less technically advanced than its contemporary, the B-29. It might have had real difficulty penetrating air defenses in '47 because of its 6,200 m (~20,000') operating altitude.
US aircraft like the P-61 radar-equipped night fighter would probably have had a bit of a field day against the Ju-390.
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Leonidas
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Here's more info on German weapons that were designed to attack the United States in World War II.
All info below is historically accurate:
Submarines
After the Allies had won the war against the U-boat in late 1943, plans were underway in Germany to develop a new type of submarine. The XXIII and XXI type submarines were developed so they could remain submerged longer and travel faster while underwater. It was hoped that these new U-boats would evade detection by Allied anti-submarine forces and intercept convoys and warships headed for England and Europe. Although 1200 of these submarines were planned to be built, only a few were commissioned before the war ended.
Even towards the end of World War II Germany had drawn up plans to attack American cities using a U-boat and rocket. Roger Ford, in his insightful book Germany's Secret Weapons in World War II (Brown Books, London: 2000), states that Germany had plans to use a submerged U-boat to launch a V-2 rocket at New York City. This was to be accomplished by towing a vertical, self-contained chamber behind the submarine.
This plan had "reached a fairly advanced stage by 1945, with several containers having been completed and tested at the Vulkan shipyard in Stettin. Known as Test-Stand XII, and conceived apparently by Volkswagan in late 1944, this was aimed at the bombardment of New York" (p.81).
Long Range Bombers
In order to strike at America several planes were designed by major German companies, including Focke-Wulf with the Ta 400; Junkers with the Ju 390; and Messerschmitt with the Me 264. The Ta 400 was never built. But the second prototype of the Ju 390 actually flew from "Mont de Marsan on the Atlantic coast of France, near Bordeaux, [and] it once approached to within 20 km (12.4 miles) of New York before returning safely to base, thus validating the operational concept" (Ford, Germany's Secret Weapons, p.30).
The four-engine Me 264, initially designed in 1937 and 1938, and referred to inside the German government as the "Amerika-Bomber" or the "New York Bomber", had a range of nine thousand miles and was capable of carrying "a five-ton load of bombs to New York, a small load to the middle West, or reconnaissance missions over the West Coast and then returning to Germany without intermediate bases" (Weinberg, Germany, p.197).
The Me 264 actually made its first flight in December 1942, when it flew 30 hours non-stop to New York and returned safely to Europe (Ford, Germany's Secret Weapons, p.30).
These long-range bombers were designed to bring Germany's new air force directly into the skies over America. The war, however, ended before any of these planes could be used to actually bomb American cities.
The Remarkable Case of Dr. Eugen Saenger
During the 1930s, a visionary German scientist, Dr. Eugen Saenger, became well-known through his experiments on liquid-fuel rocket engines as well as articles he wrote about rocket powered aircraft. The unique knowledge he displayed about rocket engines led to a request from the German government for him to take charge of a secret aerospace research laboratory in Trauen, where he would design and build an aircraft called "Silverbird". Saenger had been working for years on this concept, and was already developing liquid-fuel rocket engines, some of which had an exhaust velocity far greater than that of the V2 rocket.
Dr. Saenger, along with his staff, continued work on the Silverbird under the Amerika-Bomber program. The Saenger Amerika-Bomber (or Orbital Bomber, Antipodal Bomber or Atmosphere Skipper) was designed to be a supersonic, stratospheric bomber, capable of bombing American cities such as New York and Chicago.
The Silverbird had a unique shape. Its flat fuselage created lift, and the wings were short and wedge shaped. There was a horizontal tail surface at the extreme aft end of the fuselage, which had a small fin on each end. Fuel and oxygen tanks were carried on each side of the fuselage, while a huge rocket engine of 100 tons thrust was mounted in the rear. The pilot was housed in a pressurized cockpit in the forward fuselage, and a tricycle undercarriage was fitted for a glide landing. A central bomb bay held one 3,629 kg (8,000lb) free-falling bomb.
The Silverbird was to be propelled down a 3 km (1.9 mile) long rail by a rocket-powered sled, and, after taking off at a 30 degree angle, was to climb to an altitude of 1.5 km (5100'), at a speed of 1,850 km/h (1,149 mph). The main rocket engine would then be fired for 8 minutes, propelling the Silverbird to a speed of 22,100 km/h (13,724 mph) at an altitude of over 145 km (90 miles). As the aircraft accelerated and descended under the pull of gravity, it would hit denser air at about 40 km (25 miles) and 'skip' back up, just like a stone thrown on a lake. These skips would gradually decrease until the aircraft glided back to a normal landing using its tricycle landing gear, after travelling approximately 23,500 km (14,594 miles) across the earth's upper atmosphere.
Despite the promise of the plane's design, once German armies invaded the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, most futuristic programs, including the "Silverbird", were canceled due to the need to concentrate on proven designs.
After the war, Dr. Saenger worked for a European aerospace group until the time of his death in 1964. His post-war work bore fruit. Stalin became fascinated with his designs, and Saenger's influence eventually led to the United States developing the Dynosoar.
In the latest developments, the new Saenger II space plane was unveiled by the European Space Agency, and was projected to fly in 2005. But due to exhorbitant costs involved in its development, the Saenger II was cancelled in 1994. Remarkably, the Saenger II space plane bore a striking resemblance in shape and design to the original Saenger Amerika-Bomber.
More info on Dr. Saenger:
http://www.luft46.com/misc/sanger.html
The Sänger Orbital Bomber, with bomb bay doors open, on its bomb run over New York City (Manhatten Island is visible just ahead of the Sänger's nose)....
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/s...2/sangerny.html
The Sänger Orbital Bomber over Chicago (Lake Michigan can be seen under the starboard wing)....
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/s...2/sangerch.html
Last edited by Leonidas on 20-12-2004 at 05:02
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AGRICOLA
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Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:16
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Unless the Germans were figuring on using their various "Amerika" bombers or the V-2 to carry A-bombs, they must have been well fortified with schnapps to think that using them to bomb North America was either practical or worth the tremendous cost. 
The years of RAF and USAAF bomber raids in Europe showed that unescorted bombers could operate only at night without suffering catastrophic casualties. Even the early B-29 raids on Japan were night-time operations. By '47, with jet interceptors and with night fighters equipped with radar, German bomber crews could expect a warm welcome to North America and an exciting but short life. Imagine trying to nurse a damaged bomber from New York back to Iceland or Scotland. Crews of damaged aircraft would face an interesting choice . . . bail out over North America, live and become POW's or face the risk that the plane may go down in the North Atlantic and they probably will freeze to death. The Americans paid a horrendous price for Iwo Jima at least in part to provide a base for escort fighters and emergency landing fields for B-29's that had suffered battle damage and may not have made it back to their bases in the Marianas.
Again, on the basis of the number of Allied bomber sorties and the bomb tonnage it took to produce a significant effect on German industry, I don't see how any trans-Atlantic bomber attacks could produce much beyond a temporary psychological effect. In Europe, the maximum penetration of bomber raids was ~600 miles and the B-29 raids against Japan involved targets ~1200 miles distant. A significant number of planes had to abort every time because of mechanical problems. Those distances are small compared to 6000 mile round trips that Amerika bombers would be asked to make. 25-30 hours in the air is probably a reasonable estimate for flight times, especially with the headwinds that can be expected when flying west at 20,000 feet or less. How many planes would have to ditch in the Atlantic for purely mechanical reasons not related to battle damage? I think that German losses would be worse than than those of the most costly Allied raids and definitely not sustainable for any length of time.
The towed V-2 looks interesting until one examines the logistics of it. Assume that the V-2 canister has been hooked on and the U-boat leaves a European port. With the extra drag of the tow I’d be surprised if it could reach launch position in less than 8-10 days. After launch, it would take a week to return to base and another week to get everything ready for the next mission. The net accomplishment of that U-boat in 3 weeks of operation would have been to blow a 50’ crater somewhere in North America. I rather suspect that, with unavoidable errors in the U-boat’s location at launch and the V-2’s inherent lack of accuracy, an impact within a mile of the target would be considered good shooting. Again, a psychological rather than a practical weapons system.
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Sarsstock
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Still, assuming Harry that the Luftwaffe did give their long range bombers adequate protection over American airspace, German based bombers could indeed play a large role in disrupting American industry in the opening phases of the war. That is until the Germans drove inland enough to establish their own airbases for bombing operations.
I think this could easily be simulated Harry by having a single land hex on the map's edge represent the German base in question. The bombers, whether they be the Me 264, the Me 364, the Ju 390 or the incredible Sänger would only have to be given the apropriate range to hit New York, Boston, Philadelphia and or Chicago.
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16-12-2004 22:52
I was thinking of making a super unit and I think I have found the perfect soundbite. 
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