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germanos
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behind a firm ****, Rotterdam, NL
Apr 2002
time: 06:17
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my guess would be that the 'tilt' of Pluto's orbit is equal to the tilt of Saturn's rings (relative to the solar system''s 'plane') (sorry don't know the English scientific terms that describe orbits)
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:17
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First, comparing von Daniken to Sitchen is evidence of ignorance. Hell, why not just shoot down every new theory by pointing to Daniken?
Hueij - quote:
Sitchin's claim to fame is announcing that he alone correctly reads ancient Sumerian clay tablets. |
He used the already accepted translations of the Enuma Elish. He just read the text as if it's actually describing creation in the context of space, planets, etc.
quote:
All other scholars have misread these tablets which, according to Sitchin, reveal that gods from another planet (Niburu, which orbits our Sun every 3,600 years) arrived on Earth some 450,000 years ago and created humans by genetic engineering of female apes. |
These claims were made by the Sumerians. Sitchin arrived at 450,000 by multiplying the Sumerian Sar - "divine year" of 3,600 years - by the biblical statement that God's "spirit" would reside in man for only 120 years with an additional few thousand years to account for the time lapsed between the arrival of the gods and their creation of humans. His claim is supported by more recent research into the age of large brained hominids. Something happened around 3-400,000 years ago to "evolve" homo erectus into archaic homo sapiens and eventually us. The sumerians said a god named Ea used an existing creature to mix with the gods to produce primitive workers capable of following orders.
quote:
Niburu orbits beyond Pluto and is heated from within by radioactive decay, according to Sitchin. No other scientist has discovered that these descendents of gods blew themselves up with nuclear weapons some 4,000 years ago. |
Quite a hackneyed critique, Sitchin didn't say they blew themselves up. Sitchin says the biblical story of Sodom matches "The Lamentations of Ur" - a sumerian text describing a poisoning of the environment - which is also within the timeframe for the biblical story, about 2200=2000 BC. Your source is worthy of skepticism... 
quote:
Sitchin alone can look at a Sumerian tablet and see that it depicts a man being subjected to radiation. |
What do you think other experts do? They look at a tablet and interpret what they see.
quote:
He alone knows how to correctly translate ancient terms allowing him to discover such things as that the ancients made rockets. |
Maybe you can explain the Tower of Babel. Sitchin shows the artifacts to support his conclusions, and one of those artifacts was a 4400 year old cylinder seal depicting our solar system - 12 bodies that played important roles in the Enuma Elish.
Jarouik - quote:
was wondering what ancient Sumerians had to do with Pluto - considering they had no optical instruments and didn't know it existed - but the quote given by Hueij makes it all very clear : Clearly, the Sumerian clay tablets tell the ultimate truth. |
Did you know the Greek father of astronomy - Democritus - said there were more planets than could be seen by the naked eye? He said this after traveling to Egypt and Mesopotamia to learn what they knew about the cosmos.
Molly - quote:
Could someone explain how rings 'point' ? |
Equatorial plane, Saturn's equator/rings points to Pluto.
quote:
And exactly what that's meant to mean in the context of space ? |
That, combined with other similarities show a connection between the 2 planets. For example, Pluto's ascending node - the point it rises above the ecliptic - is very close to Saturns. No other planets share such a close ascending node. Another, if we subtract Saturns distance from the sun from Plutos' closest and furthest points, we see a nice 2 to 1 ratio.
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Sitchin or astronomers ? It's a tough choice. |
What exactly did you post that contradicts Sitchin? Btw, I'm the one who identified the connection between Pluto and Saturn. Sitchin merely said there was a connection because Pluto appears as Saturn's satellite in the Enuma Elish. That claim motivated me to look at the two planets for orbital connections.
Geronimo - quote:
Why would pluto have been ejected from saturn rather than a more obviously traumatised planet like uranus? |
Saturn's rings are evidence of trauma. What greater evidence do you see with Uranus?
quote:
assuming it was ejected at all. There is nothing to suggest pluto had to have ever oribted another planet. |
It's eccentricity and orbital inclination to the ecliptic are evidence of an ejection. The favored theory among astronomers is that Pluto was ejected from Neptune.
quote:
Anyway the babylonians had horribly crude instruments. All they had really was a calendar and the naked eye Who gives a rat's arse what they thought about astronomy apart from it's historical interest? |
No one said they observed the outer planets with optics, just that the outer planets appear in their creation texts.
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:17
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John T - quote:
Berz, anybody can get the answer they want if they pick and choose the numbers that will get them that answer in the first place. |
But Sitchin arrived at that number about 25 years ago when we knew very little about the large brained hominids immediately preceding anatomically modern humans. In fact, his book doesn't contain the recent strides in DNA indicating an "Eve" about 250,000 years bp.
quote:
Why, did you know that if you multiplied the number of days in the week by 1/2 the number of months in the year, you come up with the Holy Number According To Adams? Try it! |
The Sumerian "sar" = 3,600, the biblical story ultimately deriving from the earlier sumerians says 120 is a relevant time to God. Was the 120 in the Bible referring to the Sumerian divine year, a year in God's time? Sitchin isn't making stuff up, he's using the time frame used by the Sumerians, and Abram was a Sumerian, culturally if not ethnically. The ages of the biblical patriarchs match the mythical king's list from ancient Egypt when multiplied by the same number.
Anyway, this is about Saturn and Pluto and how Sitchin, or more importantly, how the sumerians knew there were 12 bodies in our solar system - 10 planets, sun and moon. This is what they depicted on that 4400 year old cylinder seal.
And what do we find in ancient Peru, the home of the Inca? An Incan prince tried to draw a picture of the Incan Genesis from memory because the Spanish melted the tablet down for the gold. The Incan "creator" was not human, their creator was an ellipse joining or separating two groups of celestial objects with 4 in the lowest group and 5 in the upper group. On either side was the sun and moon. There we see again 12 celestial bodies in a creation story. How about the Maya and Toltecs? They believed "Heaven" was comprised of 13 levels with their creator occupying 2 layers. There's not only the 12 celestial bodies we see in Peru and Sumer, but just as the Incan creator was an ellipse occupying 2 stations in heaven, we find the same Toltec creator occupying 2 layers in Heaven.
In Hindu mythology we see Brahma in his incarnation as Earth represented by 7 "eyes". And in the Incan depiction of creation, Earth is represented by 7 dots. Then there's the biblical emphasis on 7, why? How is the number 7 relevant to Earth? It's the 3rd rock from the sun. Well, not if you were coming into the solar system from the outside. Then it becomes the 7th planet...
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JohnT
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Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:17
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quote:
In Hindu mythology we see Brahma in his incarnation as Earth represented by 7 "eyes". And in the Incan depiction of creation, Earth is represented by 7 dots. Then there's the biblical emphasis on 7, why? How is the number 7 relevant to Earth? It's the 3rd rock from the sun. Well, not if you were coming into the solar system from the outside. Then it becomes the 7th planet... |
However, there is also the contention, also supported by the evidence, that the emphasis on the number 7 actually has no special meaning whatsoever other than being the largest prime number under ten (fingers).
quote:
Anyway, this is about Saturn and Pluto and how Sitchin, or more importantly, how the sumerians knew there were 12 bodies in our solar system - 10 planets, sun and moon. This is what they depicted on that 4400 year old cylinder seal. |
But there aren't 12 bodies in our solar system... there are thousands. Even some of Jupiter and Saturn's moons are as large, or larger, than some of the planets. Since the ancients are smart enough to adduce the existence of the "invisible" planets, why weren't they smart enough to adduce the existence of the "invisible" moons of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune... and why didn't they realize that Pluto is more of a double-planet than a single entity?
quote:
Pluto is not only much smaller and less massive than every other planet, it is also smaller and less massive than seven moons of other planets: Ganymede, Titan, Callisto, Io, Earth's Moon, Europa and Triton. |
Ooh, there's that number 7 again! 
quote:
Pluto has one natural satellite, Charon, first identified in 1978. Pluto and Charon are noteworthy for being the only planet/moon pair in the solar system whose barycenter lies above the planet's surface. Pluto and Charon are also unusual among planets in that they are tidally locked to each other. This means that Charon always presents the same face to Pluto, and Pluto also always presents the same face to Charon. Note that some binary asteroids may also possess both of these traits, and that the Jupiter/Sun barycenter is above the Sun's surface, so neither is completely unique. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto_%28planet%29
Last edited by JohnT on 12-12-2004 at 07:08
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11-12-2004 14:44
Who gives a rat's arse what they thought about astronomy apart from it's historical interest?
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