13-12-2004 05:41									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It does seem to be getting silly the lengths these companies go to to protect their game, especially when they will, invariably, be hacked pretty damn quickly anyway. We know the protection doesn't work, so to get round this stop trying to f**k us over!

	13-12-2004 05:42									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

There was both a 6 CD (!) version and a DVD version in the States. Europe and rest of the world only got the DVD.

	13-12-2004 07:37									#33
	Got spare money?

quote: That companies try to prevent illegal copying is not in question. What is how far companies are willing to go at the expense of the consumer (who also has his rights and user preferences). So: is Steam just another example of copyright protection or enforcement?

Valve can go farther than most, because they know that HL2 would sell so much. People would be willing to go through Steam because of the hype and great reviews of the game. Other games, which won't be as popular probably won't try it.

	13-12-2004 07:42									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

So..I get a lot of my decision making from Apolyton because 'Poly is the E F Hutton..the Siskel & Ebert The ..The..

The Greenpeace ina Polluted world of misinformation..

Should I or should I not fork out the moola .da duckies..for this game?

Thanks

Gramps

	13-12-2004 08:08									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by CapTVK I've decided to look up the license agreements for Steam http://www.steampowered.com/index.p...riber_agreement In essence you buy a license, not a piece of software. That copy of HL2 you bought in the store has a resale value of zero the moment you use it.

Every game I have ever bought says the same thing, you have never bought a piece of software you always license it's use.

ACK!

	13-12-2004 08:10									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have 10 EQ2 CDs

and I just bought Halflife 2, and downloaded it

Jon Miller

	13-12-2004 09:54									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski Every game I have ever bought says the same thing, you have never bought a piece of software you always license it's use. ACK!

With other games the liscense was resellable though.

	13-12-2004 15:17									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Yeah, I agree with Harry. They weren't just subject to basic pirating of their game, they had their code stolen. So they are going to make sure they protect their product as much as possible. It may impact legal purchasers more, but that is what happens when some idiots mess around with piracy.

I didn't steal it - I paid A$ 84.95 for the game. As Valve choses to assume that I'm a criminal until I spend my time and money proving otherwise, I'm chosing to take my business elsewhere in future.

...and don't get my started on how user unfriendly Steam is. I just want to play the freaking game offline in single player mode and not have to leap through several hoops every time I fire it up.

	13-12-2004 19:29									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Do you actually have to be online while you play it? I am wondering because there are still a lot of people (including me while I'm home) who have dialup and only 1 phone line.

	13-12-2004 21:55									#40
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Do you actually have to be online while you play it? I am wondering because there are still a lot of people (including me while I'm home) who have dialup and only 1 phone line.

Supposedly you can run it offline after the one-time activation. However, several people have encountered problems with that offline mode.

	13-12-2004 23:24									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

When I was playing, my firewall would every now and then shoot a popup asking me should I let HL2 connect out to some IP address. I just specified a "no way Jose" rule for it and everything worked fine enough. But I did get the feeling that the game was trying to phone home while I was playing it.

	14-12-2004 00:26									#42
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by CapTVK I've decided to look up the license agreements for Steam http://www.steampowered.com/index.p...riber_agreement In essence you buy a license, not a piece of software. That copy of HL2 you bought in the store has a resale value of zero the moment you use it.

Unbelievable.

	14-12-2004 02:22									#43
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I haven't even played halflife2 single player

don't even have it installed

so for me, the multiplayer is everything

Jon Miller
(and I feel al ittle guklty for playing halflife for years without buying it)

	14-12-2004 02:53									#44
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: I didn't steal it - I paid A$ 84.95 for the game. As Valve choses to assume that I'm a criminal until I spend my time and money proving otherwise, I'm chosing to take my business elsewhere in future.

Go ahead. Valve has decided that the number of people who decide to not buy another Valve game in the future is offset by detering X amount of pirating.

	14-12-2004 02:59									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns With other games the liscense was resellable though.

actually im not sure, my impression was most EULAs (which as has been debated ad nauseum, may or may not be enforceable) dont allow for resale. The industry has simply decided not to go after resellers (since EB plays such a huge role in the used game market in the US, and EB is also a principle retailer of new games, this would seem a prudent approach) - they wink at it, but dont formally allow it. At least thats my understanding.

	14-12-2004 03:02									#46
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I didn't steal it - I paid A$ 84.95 for the game. As Valve choses to assume that I'm a criminal until I spend my time and money proving otherwise, I'm chosing to take my business elsewhere in future. Go ahead. Valve has decided that the number of people who decide to not buy another Valve game in the future is offset by detering X amount of pirating.

I really do not see what pirating they were trying to stop. It was cracked in about a week, with a really good one in 2.

Oh you mean me physically loaning my friend my copy after I'm done with it?

	14-12-2004 03:37									#47
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia With zero resale value, they're still taxing you the full price?! And if you download it directly from them, it's the same price as when getting it through a retailer. You'd think they could lower the massive profit margin even just a a bit to make it more appealing. I'm ever so happy I didn't buy HL2. (I borrowed it from a friend. )

If I remember correctly, the reason it's the same price online as it is in retail is due to the agreement they have with Vivendi, the publisher.

When you buy HL2 over Steam, Vivendi gets no money out of the deal; it all goes to Valve. Now, Vivendi doesn't exactly like this, since Valve could lower their prices over Steam and undercut Vivendi's retail sales significantly. Vivendi sued Valve over something like this and Valve won, I believe.

Anyways, I have never had problems with Steam and I'm going to be buying HL2 tonight after my finals.

	14-12-2004 04:13									#48
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I want to pay for the game, but don't want to support projects like Steam. Does anyone know if there is any way I can support Vengeance once I've finished... err, downloading a completely random file made by them which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread? Do they have a swiss bank-account where I can transfer money or something?

	14-12-2004 04:52									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Was there an NFO file? Im sure they wouldnt turn down a random donation anyway.

	14-12-2004 05:03									#50
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm sure they wouldn't be suspicious either...

	14-12-2004 05:13									#51
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by CapTVK In essence you buy a license, not a piece of software. That copy of HL2 you bought in the store has a resale value of zero the moment you use it.

Umm. If you do buy the license then can you not simply re-sell it?

ie: If you can register steam with a particular cd-key can't you just de-register the same before you sell it?

I just had a quick look at e-bay and there are an awful lot of copies for sale - not all of them unused. There could be quite a few rather irate customers out there.

	14-12-2004 11:20									#52
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Do you actually have to be online while you play it? I am wondering because there are still a lot of people (including me while I'm home) who have dialup and only 1 phone line.

No - you can play it offline (which I do - I also have a crappy dial-up connection on my only phone line). However, this is painful to do - there's no 'offline mode default' - you have to chose to play offline every time you load the game, which adds about a minute or so to the time it takes to load.

	14-12-2004 14:42									#53
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: So you think it's rational to react to a real threat by punishing genuine customers in place of the pirates, since punishing the pirates is not possible? That's what usually happens. In the cat and mouse game between pirates and game companies, the companies have to do something. They can't simply say that, hey, people are going to pirate anyway, so we shouldn't do anything about it.

Actually, that's what Brad Wardell does. Does anybody remember his piece on piracy? He was absolutely right about how these harebrained copy protections schemes are going to create more pirates.

	14-12-2004 16:37									#54
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by VJ I want to pay for the game, but don't want to support projects like Steam. Does anyone know if there is any way I can support Vengeance once I've finished... err, downloading a completely random file made by them which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread? Do they have a swiss bank-account where I can transfer money or something?

Paypal is the favoured system for online transactions but you need a creditcard. If you live in Europe you can also use IBAN which is a sort of international bank account number for the European banking sector (everyone with a European bankaccount has one). Just check your bank for more information IBAN.

The transaction fees are low, far lower than those for paypal.

	14-12-2004 23:23									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah but do you know their bank account details?

	15-12-2004 00:52									#56
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Oops, with Vengeance you meant something else than Tribes: Vengeance?

http://www.tribesvengeance.com/us/

	15-12-2004 05:14									#57
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Well, I paid for Half Life 2 and after I finished loading it (since I didn't finish preloading it before its release) I was able to play it.

No problems with it at all, I just clicked "Launch Game" in Steam.

Valve

	15-12-2004 06:22									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

ixnay

Valve is smart with Steam... it curbs piracy big time. Even I bought this game (HL2... but only for CS:Source )

	15-12-2004 21:56									#59
	Inflate your Upload Space

Even I bought this game, too, and I do not regret it because it's an excellent game... but I do regret having Steam and am glad I got rid of it. I'd pay 10$ more for a version that doesn't have Steam.

	16-12-2004 02:07									#60
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Do you actually have to be online while you play it? I am wondering because there are still a lot of people (including me while I'm home) who have dialup and only 1 phone line.

You can be offline to play it. I only have 1 line as well and it works fine. The install takes a long time though. Took me ~2hrs to install and get all the updates.

I would prefer downloading the patches seperately but with steam you can't.