16-12-2004 02:13									#61
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Isn't this the equivalent to Sony finding a way to make Gamecube games work on PS2, And then Nintendo stopping that with some fix or patch?

Sure you could say Nintendo is being bad for consumers. But its their product and Apple's i-Music store that makes their respective companies big profits. Apple must look out for it like Nintendo with their gamecube..

	16-12-2004 02:29									#62
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That's a great comparison, because Nintendo's Gamecube is declining very rapidly in marketshare and falling out of favor with consumers.

	16-12-2004 02:51									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I was criticised heavily when I called Real's actions a hack on Apolyton. It's funny that now those same people are giving to this comment, conceding that I was right.

are you talking about me? please find my quote on this....

	16-12-2004 02:57									#64
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The commission's decision is partly based on an array of internal corporate memos, which offer an illuminating picture of Microsoft's own attitudes to its software and business practices. In a memo from Bill Gates, for example, the company's chairman makes it clear that the loyalty of application makers is due not so much to the superiority of Windows as to the difficulty of making Windows applications cross-platform.

"The Windows API is so broad, so deep and so functional that most ISVs would be crazy not to use it," said the Feb. 21, 1997, memo, drafted for Gates by C++ General Manager Aaron Contorer. "It is so deeply embedded in the source code of many Windows apps that there is a huge switching cost to using a different operating system instead. ... It is this switching cost that has given customers the patience to stick with Windows through all our mistakes, our buggy drivers, our high TCO, our lack of a sexy vision at times, and many other difficulties.

"In short, without this exclusive franchise called the Windows API, we would have been dead a long time ago," the memo said.

	16-12-2004 03:19									#65
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real.
mac fanbois

i really can't support apple's move here, mostly because i hate itunes/windows and can't use an ipod on linux. therefore, i still am pretty certain an ipod isn't for me.

	16-12-2004 04:22									#66
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quote: You are less of a zealot than our vocal Mac users, but you are a fanboy nonetheless. I precisely remember you arguing how superior IE was to Mozilla/Firefox because tabbed browsing was so confusing for the average user.

Yeah, I remember that.

Almost as funny as the time he said that having a big green "X" icon for Excel would confuse users.

You can call me what you like, but at least I'm reasonably consistent.

BTW: I supported Real's actions.

	16-12-2004 04:27									#67
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The anwser is so simple. Right now I refuse to buy any CD player which is designed not to play MP3 CDs. I won't buy from Sony or several other hardware makers because they are trying to tell me what I can or can't do with music I've bought but luckily there are several makers who do sell players which let me decide what I want to play.

Portable Music players are the exact same. There are a ton of great players on the market several of which don't try to force me to only play music I buy from one company. I like competition and having choices there for I have never bought anything from Apple.

	16-12-2004 04:35									#68
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What's really funny is that this update (if it is the one I think it is) came out about six weeks ago.

It must be that insane demand for Real's product which has produced such instant and massive outrage from consumers.

	16-12-2004 04:42									#69
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quote: I like competition and having choices there for I have never bought anything from Apple.

So you'd rather be compelled to use software made by a company convicted of anticompetitive practices.

Windows is a joke. It's about three years behind the Mac OS with regards to things like graphics, search, and security and this will only get worse with the release of the next version of the Mac OS in a few months.

	16-12-2004 04:43									#70
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You know, the funny part is that if MS had an mp3 player it would probably do the same thing that Apple is doing here and Asher would back it! Saying something like LOTM is saying with "you buy the player, you also buy the service". He's such a fanboy.

I'm with Aggie. I think Real should have been allowed to continue, but I understand why they were stopped by an Apple hack.

	16-12-2004 04:58									#71
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark What makes me think that the demise of the PC will come first?

Possible...

	16-12-2004 05:02									#72
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I think Apple offered Sony compatibility with the iTMS when it first started out, but Sony turned them down because Sony wanted to use ATRAC.

quote: You know, the funny part is that if MS had an mp3 player it would probably do the same thing that Apple is doing here and Asher would back it

Yep. Which shows about how much credibility he has.

	16-12-2004 05:06									#73
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You know, the funny part is that if MS had an mp3 player it would probably do the same thing that Apple is doing here and Asher would back it!

The funny part here is that MS does make an MP3 product, called Portable Media Player, and it is open -- not closed like Apple's.

I would not back anything that artificially closes a market, it's no good to the consumer.

MS developed and promotes an OS and interface (along with codecs, etc) for upcoming MP3 players. The new Zens use a subset of it (WMP sync), and stuff like Creative's Portable Media Center and Samsung's upcoming products use the full-blown OS and interface.

MS may not be making the hardware itself, but that's beside the point -- MS does have a portable media product, and it is open.

Your entire assertion, especially Aggie's assertion about it showing my credibility, has certainly just backfired.

	16-12-2004 05:27									#74
	Re: Apple is becoming the next MS Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa It seems that Apple is on the same path as MS. I am sure I won't be getting an iPod after this. What's that for a company denying people the option to purchase where they want. It was bad enough that they wouldn't give anybody the chance to download iPod compatible music, but now that a company made it and sold millions of songs, Apple betrayed its users. It can still be justified of course, but I don't think this is user friendly anymore. If they continue like this we may have Yet Another Microsoft. I've always supported Apple and its products, but at some point you have to say: NO!

*smug chuckle* Finally, the world is beginning to see the light, to know the true nature of that.... APPLE corporation.

Long Live PCs!

Down with Control Freaks!

	16-12-2004 05:35									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Apple's just doing what it has always done. Try to lock in users with hardware then deny then choices from competition.

No wonder why it only controls something like 2% of personal computer market...

Apple I think will experience a further decline. Particularly with the Ipod, which I think will fall out of favor pretty soon.

"It's about three years behind the Mac OS with regards to things like graphics, search, and security and this will only get worse with the release of the next version of the Mac OS in a few months."

If you are comparing Windows 95 to Mac OS perhaps. But this is year 2004. It isn't time to live in the past. Furthermore, I'm sure Mac OS has a huge amount of security exploits that haven't been discovered because they control such a miniscule and statistically insigificant part of the market. Hackers are creating security problems for the OS most people own.

"What makes me think that the demise of the PC will come first?"

The issue with this statement is that won't happen. Why? Because of the high amount of competition in the market. It drives down prices and pushes advancement.

	16-12-2004 05:36									#76
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quote: MS may not be making the hardware itself, but that's beside the point -- MS does have a portable media product, and it is open.

Another Asher confusing the topic tactic. Why in the Hell would a company make software for MP3 players closed when it DOESN'T MAKE MP3 PLAYERS ITSELF? Where would the software be used?

Think, would you?

	16-12-2004 05:39									#77
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quote: Another Asher confusing the topic tactic. Why in the Hell would a company make software for MP3 players closed when it DOESN'T MAKE MP3 PLAYERS ITSELF? Where would the software be used? Think, would you?

Don't confuse the boy, Imran.

	16-12-2004 06:17									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Asher You couldn't see how unsolicited email could be considered spam from a 1998-era spam filter? Honestly now, UR...

You just have to show me what kind of keywords were common to greeting cards and spam that sold sex aid and bootlegged software.

quote: Originally posted by Asher All the patch did was add Blue Mountain's sending email to an exception list. Which is something they could've asked MS to do in the first place, rather than just suing them...

IIRC, Blue Mountain tried that first, to no avail.

	16-12-2004 06:30									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa However the cure for market dominance is the market itself. Within enough time reasonable alternatives will pop up.

In the mean time, consumers suffer, and competition got rolled over. That's why anti-trust laws are in place.

	16-12-2004 06:47									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Another Asher confusing the topic tactic. Why in the Hell would a company make software for MP3 players closed when it DOESN'T MAKE MP3 PLAYERS ITSELF? Where would the software be used? Think, would you?

Take your own advice, Imran.

Microsoft makes money by selling and licensing software to companies who actually make the MP3 players. Kind of like...oh, I don't know -- here's a wild example -- Microsoft Windows on the PC.

You don't need to produce the hardware to have a huge stake and huge business strategy with a piece of hardware.

Don't you get it? They're completely the same strategy -- MS makes software that individual PC makers buy and license. Apple makes the "whole package" and locks out anyone who tries to compete, which results in ridiculous price premiums for Apple products.

Think!

To answer your question specifically -- Microsoft license WMA out to anyone who wants it, not just companies that buy Microsoft's Portable Media OS. Apple does not provides AAC w/ FairPlay to anyone, and in fact actively goes after people who offer it if it's not them.

	16-12-2004 06:53									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You just have to show me what kind of keywords were common to greeting cards and spam that sold sex aid and bootlegged software.

It's an unsolicited email asking the user to come visit a website...

Do you really need someone to hold your hand an explain why this could easily be labeled as "spam" by a computer algorithm?

quote: IIRC, Blue Mountain tried that first, to no avail.

You don't recall correctly -- they went straight for the lawsuit, in typical American fashion.

Why ask when they knew they had a chance of wringing some money from someone they knew had a lot?

Don't paint this as a victory against Microsoft, it's actually a sad, pathetic fact of reality for such a ruthlessly capitalistic society like the US is. A communist such as yourself should not condone such behavior, let alone flaunt it.

	16-12-2004 22:29									#82
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actually, my litmus test these days for buying hardware is whether or not it works in linux.

which is why i refuse to buy an ipod, and why i do not like ATi graphics cards.

it is immaterial whether or not i spend more time in linux or windows--it's the principle.

and imho, apple doing the same things microsoft does eats into the mac fanbois' knee-jerk reactions that apple omfg t3h r0x0rz and not t3h 3v1l.

come back to me when you can assemble a ppc computing device by shopping around for parts.

	17-12-2004 06:51									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's an unsolicited email asking the user to come visit a website... Do you really need someone to hold your hand an explain why this could easily be labeled as "spam" by a computer algorithm?

A very incompetent spam filter, perhaps, since people ask their friends to go visit websites all the time.

Again, spam filters of that era looked for words that were likely to appear in spam, in addtion to perhaps a list of known spammer addresses. Since it's quite unlikely that any of those words would appear on a notice to receive a greeting card, the behaviour of the filter was highly suspect.

quote: Originally posted by Asher You don't recall correctly -- they went straight for the lawsuit, in typical American fashion.

Cite?

quote: Originally posted by Asher Why ask when they knew they had a chance of wringing some money from someone they knew had a lot?

This is incorrect. Blue Mountain did not ask for any money, just MS fixing OE so people can receive e-mail from them.

quote: Originally posted by Asher Don't paint this as a victory against Microsoft, it's actually a sad, pathetic fact of reality for such a ruthlessly capitalistic society like the US is. A communist such as yourself should not condone such behavior, let alone flaunt it.

This is also incorrect. A communist will always root for fairness. It is clear that Microsoft was trying to muscle into another market via their domination of the computer desktop.

	17-12-2004 06:54									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger A very incompetent spam filter, perhaps

The year was 1998...

Nearly 7 years ago. Spam Filters were anything but competent back then.

quote: Cite?

It doesn't make sense for me to cite that they haven't done something, it makes sense for you to cite that they did do something...

quote: This is incorrect. Blue Mountain did not ask for any money, just MS fixing OE so people can receive e-mail from them.

Is this some kind of joke?

Blue Mountain filed a lawsuit and asked for money, and received millions of dollars...

Like hell they did not ask for any money.

quote: This is also incorrect. A communist will always root for fairness.

If communists were about fairness, they wouldn't censor their media so heavily...and they wouldn't close threads that they have a personal dislike for alone.

	17-12-2004 08:16									#85
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When is Asher applying for a job at Micro$oft

	17-12-2004 08:34									#86
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Old jokes rehashed by people who don't understand what's going on are funny in ways they are not intended.

	17-12-2004 09:14									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Is this some kind of joke? Blue Mountain filed a lawsuit and asked for money, and received millions of dollars... Like hell they did not ask for any money.

Cite?

quote: Originally posted by Asher If communists were about fairness, they wouldn't censor their media so heavily...

You are confusing "equality" with "liberty."

quote: Originally posted by Asher and they wouldn't close threads that they have a personal dislike for alone.

You're upset because I locked your flame-baiting thread. Kids.

	17-12-2004 09:19									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Cite?

Huh? You want me to give a citation for the assertion that when someone sues Microsoft, they're looking for money?

This has to be a joke.

quote: You are confusing "equality" with "liberty."

Communists.

If you censor your news, you're not being fair to the public. They're not at liberty to hear things from uncensored sources.

quote: You're upset because I locked your flame-baiting thread. Kids.

You locked the thread telling people to calm down, when the people in the thread were clearly calm.

The fact that you're now changing your story tells me just how little base there was, other than personal grudge.

	17-12-2004 12:57									#89
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quote: Apple benefits from no path dependence. Its easy to buy a competitors product.

Yes. But don't hold your breath for an acknowledgment of this elementary point.

An anticompetitive monopoly is one that prevents a market from forming properly. When there is no prospect of a market forming there cannot be an anticompetitive monopoly.

Asher often cites Apple's control of both software and hardware as being an anticompetitive monopoly, when it has been proved that a competitive market for Macintosh computers just doesn't work (the cloning debacle).

I've been trying to bash this into his thick skull for nearly two years now and he still doesn't get it.

	17-12-2004 13:28									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Huh? You want me to give a citation for the assertion that when someone sues Microsoft, they're looking for money? This has to be a joke.

So you have nothing to back up your assertions. No surprises there.

quote: Originally posted by Asher If you censor your news, you're not being fair to the public. They're not at liberty to hear things from uncensored sources.

You're still confused. How is that not fair?

quote: Originally posted by Asher You locked the thread telling people to calm down, when the people in the thread were clearly calm.

That's not for you to judge, since some of your posts in that thread clearly showed that you were in an agitated state.

quote: Originally posted by Asher The fact that you're now changing your story tells me just how little base there was, other than personal grudge.

It's not the first time you made bald assertions -- not even in the message I am replying to.

Keep them comin'