20-11-2000 09:25									#1
	Any Diplogames starting? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm hoping find a diplogame that plays about twice a week on weeknights anytime between 4:00 - 11:00 eastern time (monday-thursday). Maybe sunday if necessary. Usual diplogame settings. Pre-made map, preferable world. Anyone planning on starting one, someone with a cable can host maybe?

	20-11-2000 19:10									#2
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I can play a once a week game 6ish-11ish est. on either Monday, Tuesday or Thursday. I already have another game going on Wed., so any more than two days in a week would be a burnout for me. Monday 6-11 would be my preferred time.

How many people do you want to have before starting?
No cable to host with here

	21-11-2000 01:43									#3
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It is winter again and time to get into a diplogame. count me intersted.
yes cable modem here

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[gold]if i display a lack of skill, pleace note the enthusiasm[/gold]

	21-11-2000 01:59									#4
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monday sounds like a good day.
Maybe 6 civs if thats ok.
Glad we have a cable host.
One question: Is all bribing traditionally allowed in diplogames? i forget

	21-11-2000 03:13									#5
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monday is good for me. By 6 civs,you mean 6 players as there should be no ai in a diplogame. I prefer no city bribe and allow bribing of units. Though i will go with the flow

	21-11-2000 03:19									#6
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I agree with CP- no bribing cities, but units are fair game.......but I don't really care either...........

	21-11-2000 05:16									#7
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oh yes, no AI of course.

For the bribing, I think that sounds fair enough, although city bribes tends to keep civs consolodated into national borders, rather than spread across the map.

Usually a turns warning is needed to declare war. One turn to declare, next turn you may begin fighting. This way defense always has the first move.

	21-11-2000 19:42									#8
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That seems fair enough......

	21-11-2000 21:33									#9
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I would like to join in on your diplo game. What settings were you planning to use. Diety? Raging Hoards? Will there be any changes to the rules.txt file, such as riot or movement adjustments? What map size?

My preferences are:

Diety and Raging Hoards, because it forces tribes to deal with defense and happiness issues.

Since diplo is a long game anyways, I think a large map should be used.

Changes to the rules.txt are fine, as long as all of them are known and agreed to in advance.

Monday is fine with me, however I might have to push back the start time to 6:30 eastern occasionally. Gotta feed myself before attempting to rule a tribe.

I am also available most weekends during the winter and I have been hoping to find a game played on Saturday or Sunday afternoons. Perhaps we could occasionally play on weekends.

Epik

	22-11-2000 10:11									#10
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Mondays at 6-630 would be a perfect start time for me.
Playing on a large map, preferably a pre-made map of course would be ideal. Your settings are cool with me Epik.

I would love to say that I could occasionally play on the weekends, but I doubt that I could. I am very rarely at home at this time....but if we communicated well, I'm sure alternate times and days could be arranged.

So thats four people in so far........are we going to try and fill the seven slots, or is 5 or 6 people fine? I am playing a 5 player game right now, and it is very well balanced. By having too many people, the reliability of a consistent game goes down. And I don't want to start a game that won't be finished. I would be happy to start with just one more person.....but this is suas's game, so I guess that it is up to him.

Don't want to rush anything, but I could start next week if everyone else could.......(Nov. 27)....

	22-11-2000 04:08									#11
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ok I agree to most of what you guys say. A few things.

1) We can start the first monday that we get 5-6 players. 5 would be okay with me if all will be consistent

2) Large map definately. Pre-made map is a must or else no other people will understand our diplo-tales. Naming things like Atlantic Ocean, Egypt etc. gives people an idea of whats going on and where in teh game.

3) Diety 1x1x is standard, the other diplogame i played had barbs on a lower level. Maybe a notch below raging?

4) We should exchange ICQ #'s, mine is 67465766

	22-11-2000 05:55									#12
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I can live with Restless Tribes of Barbarians, although I will miss that extra 50 gold coins.

Will the resources and starting locations be randomized on the large world map? I think that they should. If the resource positions are known by one tribe it would be a big advantage.

Does using a true world map give an advantage to a player that has North America? It would allow them an unhindered early expansion, but perhaps the lack of contact would be a limiting factor.

With 5 players we could give each tribe a separate continient to start in. Perhaps that would equalize the starting positions. I kinda like that idea.

Monday 11/27 is fine with me for a start date.

My ICQ is 12899901.

	22-11-2000 06:13									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I don't care for the idea of continents. I think it would prevent creative borders from being formed. In Diplogame V, we had 7 civs. And nobody was in the Americas as i recall. This led to the race for americans which was real fun. 3 civs ended up getting there around the same time with the Japanese civ ended up working out treaties for the american land in exchange for land in asia.

Randomizing resources is fine. I wouldn't mind randomizing starts, but then we must watch out for civs being too close.

	22-11-2000 18:10									#14
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Everything said up to this point is fine by me. I'll be looking forward to it. I think having randomized start points on a real map is a dangerous idea. There are clearly some really good start points, and some clearly not so good start points. But, it definetly would make everything interesting. So I guess we'll wait and see........

icq-92965309
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by drake (edited November 22, 2000).]</font>

	22-11-2000 19:20									#15
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Just to review the game settings and rules that seem to be agreed upon:

1. No City Bribes - Unit bribes are allowed
2. Diety Level
3. Restless Tribes
4. Large World Map
5. Randomized Resources and Villages
6. 1x Production 1x Movement
7. No changes to rules.txt
8. Starting Postions will not be randomized. I think that no Tribes should start in North or South America. I like the idea of a race for claiming the Americas.

Now the question becomes how do we determine which countries we take? First come first serve or do we express our preferences and see if it works out?

I chatted with Suas yesterday, and he suggested that we test Clay Pigeon's and my cable modem connections and we can use the best one. That is fine with me.

Clay you have not posted in awhile... I assume you are still interested in playing.

Also for anyone else reading this post... we still need at least one more player. All you have to do is swear a blood oath to show up every week (or at least give advance notice when you cannot show).

Epik

	22-11-2000 19:53									#16
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I was just chatting with Drake.

I think that this might make a nice distribution of tribes, if each of us took one of the following groups.


1. France, Spain or England

2. Russia

3. Zulu, Carthage or Egypt

4. Chinese or Mongols

5. India

6. Rome or Greece

	22-11-2000 20:56									#17
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I think an australian or middle east start would add to the variety too. I don't think either are done very often...might spice things up a bit.

	22-11-2000 21:14									#18
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A possible starting map......



Definetly open for discussion...........

	23-11-2000 01:00									#19
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I are still here... Checking posts daily. Im in agreement with all goings on so far. I was tought that i should quietly let people think me a fool, rather then opening my mouth and proving it.
Epic how do we test modem speed?
icq 98720447

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	23-11-2000 01:32									#20
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For 5 players, the map looks pretty good, except i suggest we make 2 civs in asia, one further northwest ands another more southeast. This way we may all reach each other my land. A race for America is a good thing. Any tribe that misses out on american land has a chance for Aurstalian land too which makes things more interesting.

	24-11-2000 05:24									#21
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ok berzerker is our 5th civ, so we can start monday. we just have to decide the civs.

	24-11-2000 12:24									#22
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I'll take the French - the Northmen

And I suggest the Arab position start out in India, not the desert. And the Chinese can start closer to Japan - this should give the Zulus Africa while the others can share Asia.
I've played the world map for fun and the Australian position is weak, maybe it would be better if they start in N America...
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Berzerker (edited November 24, 2000).]</font>

	24-11-2000 20:09									#23
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Can i be in it as 6th player?

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Woke23,

Proud member of Sayen

	24-11-2000 23:22									#24
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I have figured out how to establish the starting positions of the Tribes. I did it using the map editor. This allowed me to move and establish a "start city" which is where settlers begin.

I created the map by editing the Large World Map that came with my Civ 2 Gold CD. It is 75 x 120.

I now have a 6 Tribe Map which uses the following:

French - start in western Europe (38,32)
Russian - start in middle Asia (54,26)
Mongolians - start in NorthEast Asia (Northern China) (53,63)
Chinese - SouthEast Asia (Southern China) (63,60)
Babylonians - start in Northern India (53,63)
Egyptian - start in middle Africa (42,73)

I had to use Egyptian and Babylonians because the game uses tribe groups (colors).

I started each tribe on a river square. I added 2 rivers in the Mongolian (NE Asia area) to allow the river start.

I also added some forests to Africa, India and China, because I felt they were behind in productive squares. I created some "natural barriers" (mountains, hills or lakes) between each tribe. They are not large barriers, and I did this to balance the barriers already between other tribes ( like the Mediterian Sea, Red Sea and Himilayian Mountains).

I think that this map will give a balanced start. Since I have seen the map, I will be the last to choose my tribe. I will not know where special resources are, because those will be randomized at the start.

I will try to create a GIF of the map before we start so you have a rough idea of location.

Let me know what you think of the using the map I describe here.

Epik

	25-11-2000 04:54									#25
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Something I do not know...

Does everyone need a copy of the 6 Tribe Map I created, or does only the Host need it.

I use Mac OS. Does the map file have to have a special file extension for the others to use it?

Hopefully one of you have done maps before and can educate me on this.

	25-11-2000 05:50									#26
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i don't think everyone needs the map but i'm not sure. I'll take Egypt since they are usually my civ anyway.

	25-11-2000 08:48									#27
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Sorry Epik, but on second thought I wont be joining this one. I just finished Dip V and need a break with the Diplomacy tournament going on and all.

	25-11-2000 10:13									#28
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ok berzerker, no problem, maybe you can sub occasionally. Species can take over the spot.

	25-11-2000 19:03									#29
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I doubt that U'll will change your mindset(or start times) for this game but i'll use the thread to throw out some alternative ideas.

I'm certain many of Civ MP players that are extremely wary of ANY manipulation of the rules or maps to achieve "fairness" or "equality". Thus, we will not get involved in any contest where ANYONE changes / messes with what is an EXCELLENT game system as designed. All this discussion smacks of communists "leadership" trying to figure out how the world should set up & run. (plus, it's so much waste of valuable & limited play time)

Why don't U just PLAY? Why must all this time & energy be spent on managing the start? Especially for a DIPLO game, where U have 4000 years, thru untold players & eras to affect the end results? It is supposed to be about cooperation & building civ's... or being hell-bent on destroying each other as soon as U find'm?

To try to pre-manage the outcome so that U end up with civ's that are all designed to be "equal" in opportunity, size, & everything else, is to not understand the fun of it nor how well Sid & his fellow geniuses designed in subtle play balances. (as cited; 1 of reasons raging barbs=good idea).
Nor are U recognizing the fact that "little" countries like Portugal, Netherlands, Japan, Sweden, Eygpt made BIG civ's during history. Or that "big", resource-rich countries like Australia or Brazil have never become major powers.

PLAY ON & stop talking about the "perfect" setup!!
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Regarding the map... once again, HAVE SOME FAITH & FUN!
Where's the adventure in playing on the same old, tired, too-well-known, earth? Be bold! Be true adventurers! Be LEADERS!
"Go forth where no man has ever gone before!"

Have U ever thot how interesting it mite be to have the news reports flow in as they REALLY did? In bits & pieces, as parts of this new world are explored & reported (or NOT, as your situation mite dictate)?

At some point, just as in our own history, maps can be published for others to see, understand, & follow the action. As for describing where U are & what happens during the 1st thousand years or so, get creative! Be like the explorers(!), send back dispatches, notes, perhaps even roughly sketched maps (perhaps even FALSE maps, aye?).
Get those fine minds of yours OUT OF THE BOX. Get creative! Get bold! Dare to take what & whom U find, & work something with them!

PLAY ON, chaps! Are thee men or manipulators!
==================================================

If there are those amoungst the readers of this that feel the same urge for adventure & challenge, wishing to play a game based on the US model instead or the USSR model... start a thread & let's see if we have the interest & talent(& timetables) out there!

Thanks for the forum & good luck how ever U do it.

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"Hm-m-m, doubt me you will?"
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by KenThur (edited November 25, 2000).]</font>

	25-11-2000 21:31									#30
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I have created a new topic for discussing the use of edited maps...

Well we lost Berzerker. Species8472 if you still can join us on Monday nights (on a regular basis) then you will be our 5th.

I could prepare a map with 5 starting tribes. I would leave off the Mongols and remove the river I made for them. If we do this, then I will be the last tribe chosen.

Or, we could just use the standard large world map. The American Tribes just, would not be chosen. If we do this, then I would like to claim the French tribe.

Our start date is soon, so we need to finialize our settings.

Epik