22-12-2004 17:45									#1
	Conclusions just in: I am a n00b Remove this text

Hi. Just finished my first game of Civ in a long time. It ended in 2002 (in-game time ) with my plucky empire being effectively wiped from the face of the earth after a barrage of nuclear missiles, courtesy of the AI.

A few details about the game:

'King' difficulty level (yes, I KNOW )
Single player game.
Unpatched Civ Multiplayer Gold version.
Small world, 6 or 7 AI civs. Whatever the maximum number of AI civs is, you know.

Dear God, did I have a hard time getting anywhere. The AI civs and I all shared the same continent, which I thought would be good for a laugh. They were difficult neighbours to get on with, though. In the only serious territorial war I pursued, I attacked the Atzecs mid-game, in support of my Sioux allies, and took 3 of the Aztecs' cities. The goal of this was their capital which had 3 wonders, one of which was the Pyramids. Fair enoughski; job done without too much problem. But for the rest of the game, I was enemy number one as far as the AI was concerned. The AI civs effectively ganged up thereafter, trading techs with one another as fast as they could research them, and, as a syndicate, propelled themselves way ahead of me, even though my Democracy was churning out advances at a respectable rate.

I was building my SDIs as the nukes fell, as irony would have it. Game over.

So. Post match analysis. I'm not the civ player I thought I was, as much as it pains me to admit that. I've got a few Qs:

What could I have done to prevent the AI shunning me and ganging up on my civ?

If you set up trade routes with other civs, does that make those civs less aggressive towards you?

Err... that's it for now.

	22-12-2004 23:28									#2
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I can't answer those specific questions, but I enjoyed reading your mini "viking scribe"!

The AI will in general gang up on you if you're the strongest civ. If you don't play a conquest game, then just being ahead tech-wise enables you to have a good defense that will fend off the AIs.

Against conventional units, were there any choke points you could have used? Against nuclear missiles, I think the trick is to have landed on Alpha Centauri before the AI gets them...

Carolus

	23-12-2004 02:43									#3
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Thanks for the reply, C Rex. You're not the same Carolus Rex as on the Paradox Forums, by any chance? No, you'd probably have mentioned it...

Anyway, I was going for a conquest-style game; this is the first time I've played Civ 2 in a very long time and just fancied a bit of a fight. Problem was, as you mentioned, as soon as I became the strongest civ ('supreme' in the diplomacy window), it was a struggle to maintain the tech advantage that had put me in the lead in the first place.

I'm going to try it again. I've read a few of the strategy guides (especially the bits on trading and Super Science Cities). What I could use, though, is a decent strategy guide for playing a conquest game at the harder/hardest levels. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

	23-12-2004 11:14									#4
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Lots of cities. Build only units (including caravans for Wonders), not city improvements. Focus intensively on those two sentences and you'll crush the AI.

	23-12-2004 11:54									#5
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JG - You could try this one, and let me know if it's decent or not. AFAIK it is the only guide to early conquest. Otherwise, you could try the GL or the War Academy at CivFanatics.

conquest guide

	23-12-2004 23:32									#6
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quote: Originally posted by JosefGiven Thanks for the reply, C Rex. You're not the same Carolus Rex as on the Paradox Forums, by any chance?

No, I'm not (it's not the first time I get that question). But I was here at Apolyton first and I'm the real Carolus Rex! I guess there has to be some difference between our nicknames...

There is quite a "shield effective" conquest strategy, although the game is usually already over way before it's feasible for the sharpshooter warriors here.

It was called the "warrior to musketeer" strategy, and is used more for mid-game than early conquest I suppose. It went something like this.

Build lots of cities and keep them happy with HG and martial law. Crank out tons of warriors and build LW. Sidestep some key techs (can't remember which, but I'm sure people will fill them in) and go for gunpowder.

All those warriors will turn into musketeers and if you're sufficiently ahead of the AI you can start taking cities. Move the warriors into enemy territory well before the upgrade, or you may lose valuable time.

If the world has lots of water, the Super Ironclad strategy is a lot of fun. Also a mid-game war strategy, but quite effective. With LH and Magellan's they have seven movement points IIRC and if they're vets they take out anything up until riflemen.

Good hunting!

Carolus

	24-12-2004 10:47									#7
	Re: Conclusions just in: I am a n00b Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by JosefGiven What could I have done to prevent the AI shunning me and ganging up on my civ? If you set up trade routes with other civs, does that make those civs less aggressive towards you? Err... that's it for now.

Tech gifting and exchanges will improve the way the AI regards you - although they will still gang up on you if you are supreme. If you time it nicely, you can swap for any newly discovered AI tech and then use that tech to do a deal with all the other civs. I believe that MGE is more aggressive than 2.42, but you should still be able to bring them round by giving them techs. In my experience, a spotless reputation is some help, but not a lot. You may have to pay tribute from time to time, so it's worth keeping the amount of gold in your kitty as low as possible before starting a diplomatic dialogue. If you build Apollo they tend to go for your throat whatever their attitude is towards you.

AFAIK, trade routes have no effect on the AI attitude.

RJM at Sleeper's

BTW - Season's greetings to everyone out their in Apolyton land.

	13-01-2005 14:50									#8
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My preferred tactics are: Democracy as soon as possible,
trade, trade, trade (to make money and science), science rate as high as possible. Cities will get all needed improvements. No need for me to build a lot of military units - I bribe AI cities and AI units with spies.

	13-01-2005 20:50									#9
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Hint, research literacy and build the great library as soon as you can, that's what i do in most of my games. The great library is the best wonder period, and you never have to worry about the ai getting an unfair advantage beacause when 2 civs or more research a tech you get it free, it really makes the game easier.

	13-01-2005 21:35									#10
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quote: Originally posted by JosefGiven Problem was, as you mentioned, as soon as I became the strongest civ ('supreme' in the diplomacy window), it was a struggle to maintain the tech advantage that had put me in the lead in the first place.

The effect you hint at is called the "KeyCiv" effect. As you get further ahead in tech the "cost" of the next research goes upward. The simple solution is to tech-gift your KeyCiv, which is not always desirable in a Conquest situation, and if the civ is gone it is impossible. Some players shoot for a PowerRating of Supreme, find and reduce the Purple civ to one-city "pet" status, and then tech-gift Purple to keep their research low.

quote: I'm going to try it again. I've read a few of the strategy guides (especially the bits on trading and Super Science Cities). What I could use, though, is a decent strategy guide for playing a conquest game at the harder/hardest levels. Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Peaster's guide is really an "Early" Conquest guide - assuming you conquer early enough, you won't face issues like nukes and paradrops, so he does not cover that. You are also playing MultiPlayer Gold, so the AI is rarely going to have a reasonable attitude anyway. My rule of thumb is if we get to the "nuke" techs, no one is permitted to build Manhattan Project. If a civ gets NucFission I station Spies in close proximity, doing nothing but monitoring their building. Any Wonders they start get sabotaged once they get over 400 shields. And they get bumped to the top of my "next kill" list...

The Great Library is a prescription for staying just behind the AI tech leaders, while screwing up your own research priorities. I much prefer to give Literacy away when I get it - it seems to calm Militaristic civs down a bit (at least on Classic; I rarely play MPG) and diverts them from building a more critical Wonder that I really want. At higher difficulty levels I'd rather get free happiness via Mikes than free techs via the GL.

	14-01-2005 03:50									#11
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and then there is leonardos workshop that is even better when coupled with the great library,

	14-01-2005 04:52									#12
	MrNic is back.... ?! Increase Your PM Length

Hello guys!
I'm back! Well.. not really... I hope to be back soon!

	14-01-2005 05:29									#13
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just telling people that you still exist?

	15-01-2005 13:24									#14
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Almost hello then, MrNic

	15-01-2005 20:54									#15
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Hi JG.

There are a number of good early conquest and early landing guides out there. Any of those, if followed religiously, will show you how to win at Deity pretty easily.

That said, I don't follow guides very well at all. I'm lazy, I get distracted, and usually I'd rather muck around a bit in my Civving, at the expense of winning soonest. And yet, I win on Deity 90% of the time at least.

So if you want advice... on a small map, stake out some land ASAP. Try the size 2 city approach (maximize your food output at size 1, then switch to maximizing shields at size 2. This will allow you to pump out Settlers and other units quickly). On a small map, get 4 cities down fast. Any AI cities close to you should be attacked and captured. Build Warriors and Horsemen for defence, and your best 2-move units (Chariots, Elephants) for attack. Focus your attacks - send 2 sets of 3 units against 2 cities instead of of 3 sets of 2 units against 3 cities.

Don't let the game system make decisions for you. The game will always put city workers on high-food tiles, which isn't always the best approach. Similarly... Great Library will slow down your research with every advance that you don't need. Set early research targets (Monarchy...Trade for Caravans... Monotheism... etc) and don't get sidetracked from them.

Building Hanging Gardens will allow you to build and capture many more than your original 4 cities. If you are truly space-constrained, found more cities. 5 size 2 cities can be a lot more productive than 1 size 10 city.

In a conquest game, staying on the AI's good side is a waste of time, IMO. After 1750 AD they're going to gang up on you no matter what, anyway.

Hope some of the above helps.

BTW, welcome (and welcome Broken_Erika as well)

	18-01-2005 17:36									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Sidestep some key techs (can't remember which, but I'm sure people will fill them in)

Feudalism. As long as you don't acquire Feudalism and don't ever change production, cities can keep producing warriors, which will be upgraded to musketeers whenever a new tech is discovered (or stolen or captured ).

	20-01-2005 02:24									#17
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Being on king level the ai will always be behind in science if you play well. Always take out the nearest 1-2 ai's near you early....Use elephants/crusaders/pikeman. Later build Leo's and take the rest out with cannons. It gets real easy once railroads is discovered. I do not prefer conquest games BUT unfortunaly many sp games end that way because the ai gets SOOOO agressive and you are forced to take him out.

	21-01-2005 12:36									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Caesar Jon Being on king level the ai will always be behind in science if you play well. Always take out the nearest 1-2 ai's near you early....

In non-conquest games, having a nearby (w/in 22 clicks) AI provides a wonderful opportunity to set up very high (30-40 arrows) trade routes by taking advantage of the road/RR bonus to a foreign Civ. This can allow you to really leap ahead in science if you set up a fully functioning Super Science City.

So, maybe "sometimes" would be a better word than "always". As in, 'sometimes it is better to cultivate a nearby Civ as a Trade Partner, or just take them all out early.' Solo's Early Landing Guide has an excellent section on Trade where these kind of considerations are more fully explored.

There are so many ways to play this wonderful game!!

Monk