22-12-2004 22:37									#1
	EU Rules Against Microsoft Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Microsoft fails in court bid to suspend EU ruling Software giant will have to change practices, divulge secrets The Associated Press Updated: 11:15 a.m. ET Dec. 22, 2004 BRUSSELS, Belgium - A European Union court ruled Wednesday that Microsoft Corp. must immediately divulge some trade secrets to competitors and produce a version of its flagship Windows operating system stripped of the program that plays music and video. Click here to continue reading. . .

	22-12-2004 22:40									#2
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I heard on the radio that Microsoft said it would comply with the order. Microsoft's stock started down, but has recovered. This seems to be "no sweat."

	22-12-2004 22:41									#3
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That's stupid.

	22-12-2004 23:17									#4
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I think it's ridiculous to force a private company, whose business is intellectual propery, to divulge their trade secrets to competitors just because they run a better business.

That's just me, though.

	22-12-2004 23:50									#5
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I think its dumb too.

But its interesting, because this is an area where the EU has growing power. Who would have thought 20 years ago that the policies of American companies would be dictated in Europe?

Last edited by JimmyCracksCorn on 23-12-2004 at 03:02

	23-12-2004 00:05									#6
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The vengeful non-business side of me would be tempted to withdraw all Microsoft products from Europe and revoke its use from European customers (as they only license the software to begin with).

Force them to use Linux for a bit and see how quickly they change their tune.

	23-12-2004 00:07									#7
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maybe that would be the best thing..

Jon Miller

	23-12-2004 00:09									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The vengeful non-business side of me would be tempted to withdraw all Microsoft products from Europe and revoke its use from European customers (as they only license the software to begin with). Force them to use Linux for a bit and see how quickly they change their tune.

Maybe you can then sue Europe *in addition* to Asia for using Linux, too!

	23-12-2004 00:10									#9
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Well, there's no way revoking the rights of use across the EU bloc would work.

	23-12-2004 00:11									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The vengeful non-business side of me would be tempted to withdraw all Microsoft products from Europe and revoke its use from European customers (as they only license the software to begin with). Force them to use Linux for a bit and see how quickly they change their tune.

AFAIK (according to a German media article) MS has already announced it will sell changed versions of Windows from Jan 2005 in Europe. I also wonder - if it is possible so easily to offer another version the damage for MS due to that decision isn't probably as dramatic as they say....

	23-12-2004 00:44									#11
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If Windows has to separate WMP, why isn't OS X forced to separate iTunes?

	23-12-2004 00:47									#12
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Because it only matters if it's Microsoft.

	23-12-2004 01:07									#13
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Cuz iTunes isn't killing its competitors with a monopoly. Even if WMP isn't included with WinXP, I'd still download it for free. I like it better than WinAmp, RealMedia, QuickTime, etc.

	23-12-2004 01:08									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed If Windows has to separate WMP, why isn't OS X forced to separate iTunes?

'Cause Apple is insignificant.

	23-12-2004 01:12									#15
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Still, fair is fair.

If WMP is unbundled from Windows sold in Europe, they should have the balls to force iTunes from being bundled with OS X sold in Europe.

	23-12-2004 01:16									#16
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In principle, yes, but in practice it just wouldn't be worth the cost of litigation. It's the same reason that mom and pop stores can generally get away with more in terms of discriminatory hiring practices and things along those lines than can a corporation with deep pockets -- few lawyers will jump at the chance to sue a company with a net worth of a few grand.

	23-12-2004 01:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Still, fair is fair. If WMP is unbundled from Windows sold in Europe, they should have the balls to force iTunes from being bundled with OS X sold in Europe.

No, because the ruling against Microsoft was based on the fact that they are abused their monopoly position (according to EU regulations). Apple doesn't have a monopoly position, let alone is abusing it.

As long as you don't have a monopoly position, you're free to bundle as much as you want...

(Not telling you how it should be, just how the rules work...)

	23-12-2004 02:01									#18
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Oh, I'm well aware of the rules--no need to lecture me on them.

I know the arguments as to why Apple gets to do all the **** Microsoft did and does, only Apple still gets hailed as OMFG T3H R0X0RZ instead.

Fair is fair. Too bad that's not how things work. :shrugs:

	23-12-2004 02:04									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed only Apple still gets hailed as OMFG T3H R0X0RZ instead.

I think most of us know better than that, at least most of us who've actually had to work with Apple systems

	23-12-2004 02:45									#20
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That's stupid.

Hey, that's what you get from liberal governments, .

	23-12-2004 02:50									#21
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quote: The vengeful non-business side of me would be tempted to withdraw all Microsoft products from Europe and revoke its use from European customers (as they only license the software to begin with).

Please....

	23-12-2004 03:10									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Asher The vengeful non-business side of me would be tempted to withdraw all Microsoft products from Europe and revoke its use from European customers (as they only license the software to begin with).

The zealotic non-business side of me thinks this is a good idea .

	23-12-2004 03:37									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Hey, that's what you get from liberal governments, .

If the EU were a theocracy, they would have banned ungodly "computer" technology by now

	23-12-2004 03:45									#24
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger In principle, yes, but in practice it just wouldn't be worth the cost of litigation. It's the same reason that mom and pop stores can generally get away with more in terms of discriminatory hiring practices and things along those lines than can a corporation with deep pockets -- few lawyers will jump at the chance to sue a company with a net worth of a few grand.

You're exactly right.

Antitrust law is designed to make sure that smaller, less powerful companies with less money in their pockets have the oppurtunity to grow much larger, become richer and become more powerful, but it also is designed to make sure that large, rich and powerful companies don't become too large, rich and powerful.

	23-12-2004 03:52									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Hey, that's what you get from liberal governments, .

Antitrust legislation is something liberal and conservative governments share. Every free market has anti-trust laws. Being "liberal" or "conservative" has little (if anything) to do about it.

	23-12-2004 03:59									#26
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**** Microsoft.

The evil stupid crap you have to go through to get Greek working properly on Windows is a disgrace.

	23-12-2004 04:08									#27
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I expect Greek to be fairly easy to use in the Greek version of Windows

	23-12-2004 04:25									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Antitrust legislation is something liberal and conservative governments share. Every free market has anti-trust laws. Being "liberal" or "conservative" has little (if anything) to do about it.

Well, you know here in America it's the liberals that care the most about antitrust issues, while conservatives care little about them.

There are exceptions, however. I am one of them. I am an American conservative that actually cares about antitrust issues.

The EU on the other hand, I know is very liberal.

	23-12-2004 04:40									#29
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quote: I expect Greek to be fairly easy to use in the Greek version of Windows

I wasn't aware that there was a Classical Greek version of Windows.

Polytonic Greek in Windows is a pain in the ass. The instructions for getting it to work are ridiculous.

In contrast: Greek on OS X.

1. Find Greek Keyboard you like.
2. Put it in the "Keyboards Folder.
3. Click the Flag icon in the menubar and add the new keyboard to your list.
4. Start typing.

	23-12-2004 04:50									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy The EU on the other hand, I know is very liberal.

True, the european competition policy is very much for liberty and freedom to compete.

Why are you against liberty?