03-01-2005 05:34									#91
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I talked to my sister about it yesterday (she's Swedish). She had her honeymoon in Phuket in 2003. She's also been through Banda Aceh several years before, visiting an island off the coast there. That island probably doesn't even exist anymore now.

She wasn't aware Thailand was so big as a holiday destination though, and luckily she doesn't know anybody.

	03-01-2005 06:10									#92
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A woman they talked to on NPR today lost fifty relatives in Aceh, almost her brother-in-law's entire family.

	03-01-2005 07:33									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Various benefits on swedish television has managed to scrape together over 330 million kronor (approx 50 million $)!!!

Nice

	03-01-2005 19:38									#94
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With all our fancy technology, humanity is still rather powerless against the forces of nature. Natural disasters like this one should keep us humble, remind us of how precious each life is and remind us of the importance of community.

	03-01-2005 20:52									#95
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1700 people have today been removed from the official number of 2915 missing Swedes reported last night. But other names have been added.

827 Swedes are missing by the definition that their family say they saw them die, but have no corpses that have been identified. An additional 1459 are missing by the definition "fate unknown", making the total number 2286.

In Finland and Denmark, a lot of the missing people have been found after that their names have been published in the papers. The Swedish foreign department do not publish the list of missing people. One of the reasons is that the homes of some missing people who were published in the news have been looted by burglars.

	03-01-2005 21:38									#96
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quote: One of the reasons is that the homes of some missing people who were published in the news have been looted by burglars.

People like that should be shot

When the list of missing Norwegians was published this morning, the number was 279. Right now it's down to 150.

	03-01-2005 23:36									#97
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Just noticed that the official list of persons reported as missing in Asia contains eight Finnish nationals living in Sweden.

Recent news states that the Norwegian parliament, Stortinget, would be asked by the government to approve a further 1 billion (ie. 121 million Euros). Already 100 million NOK has been approved.

Official response to some of the criticism regarding problems with information and how it was responded to:

quote: In Finland and other Nordic countries, the authorities have been criticised for being slow to provide information. In the assessment of Kalle Löövi, Head of International Aid at the Finnish Red Cross, collapse of data communications links, e.g. in Thailand and Sri Lanka slowed down relief operations by about 24 hours compared against the ideal situation. Use of short text messages in place of telephone calls would be one way of relieving pressure on the network. Foreign Minister Tuomioja emphasised that once information about the extent of the catastrophe had reached Finnish authorities, operations were begun without cause for reproach. I don’t think that any other country acted faster, Tuomioja said.

The official list on the site of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, listing Finnish nationals reported missing after the quake in Asia:

suomeksi (katso linkki "Kaakkois-Aasian luonnononnettomuudessa kadonneet henkilöt")
pĺ svenska (se länken "Saknade personer efter katastrofen i Sydostasien")

	04-01-2005 00:32									#98
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In the UK it's40 confirmed indentified dead, 159 more presumed dead, so it's dropping slightly. Luxembourg has been cut down a lot to just 3 missing, no fatalities.

It seems the Uk has gotten off quite lightly compared to a lot of other European countries, I guess a lot of UK people that'd go to somewhere warm in the winter will more likely go to commonwealth islands in the carribean.

	04-01-2005 02:02									#99
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Powell announced today that five thousand Americans are "unaccounted for":

quote: Up to 5,000 Americans unaccounted for in tsunami disaster: Powell ADVERTISEMENT AFP Photo As many as 5,000 Americans are still unaccounted for a week after the world's deadliest tsunami pounded a dozen countries across the Indian Ocean, US Secretary of State Colin Powell said. Powell told reporters aboard his plane en route to Bangkok that the confirmed toll of Americans still stood at 15 with a defense department worker listed as missing. "The number of private citizens or citizens unaccounted for still lingers around 4-5,000," he said, adding the figure was based on phone calls from relatives or friends inquiring about their whereabouts. Powell said this did not mean they were necessarily casualties in the catastrophe. But he added: "We can't ignore the very distinct possibility that there are Americans within this number who have lost their lives. We just don't know that."

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/050103/1/3pmin.html

	04-01-2005 04:49									#100
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Do tsunamis ever occur in the North or South Atlantic Ocean areas? I've never heard of one occurring there.

	04-01-2005 04:52									#101
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quote: The 1755 Lisbon earthquake took place on November 1, 1755 at 9:20 in the morning. It was one of the most destructive and deadly earthquakes in history, killing over 100,000 people. The quake was followed by a tsunami and fire, resulting in the near total destruction of Lisbon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake

	04-01-2005 05:17									#102
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: The 1755 Lisbon earthquake took place on November 1, 1755 at 9:20 in the morning. It was one of the most destructive and deadly earthquakes in history, killing over 100,000 people. The quake was followed by a tsunami and fire, resulting in the near total destruction of Lisbon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake

I didn't realize that the great quake of Lisbon was accompanied by a tsunami. Writers of that day and age spoke of the great dipair that swept Europe after that event. Many turned away from religion, questioning whether a loving God could allow such a thing to happen. Some believe that it was the beginning of the end of the old order, since European monarchy relied upon the belief that some men were ordained by God to rule. If there was no God, then Kings were not ordained by God, but instead mere imposters.

	04-01-2005 07:26									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Do tsunamis ever occur in the North or South Atlantic Ocean areas? I've never heard of one occurring there.

It does happen, but much more rarely.

	04-01-2005 10:04									#104
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I hate to say this, but in the case of the high american missing person count, I believe a significant number of those are probably looking to scam insurance companies.

It happened in 9/11, no reason to not expect it here.

americans are greedy.

	04-01-2005 13:10									#105
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Some reasons to smile in all the misery:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4144405.stm

quote: An Indian helicopter dropping food and water over the remote Andaman and Nicobar Islands has been attacked by tribesmen using bows and arrows. There were fears that the endangered tribal groups had been wiped out when massive waves struck their islands. But the authorities say the attack is a sign that they have survived. More than 6,000 people there are confirmed as either dead or missing, but thousands of others are still unaccounted for. The Indian coastguard helicopter was flying low over Sentinel Island to drop aid when it came under attack. Dozens of tribesmen fired bows and arrows at the helicopter, a traditional warning that outsiders aren't welcome. A senior police officer said the crew weren't hurt and the authorities are taking it as a sign that the tribes haven't been wiped out by the earthquake and sea surges as many had feared. The Andaman and Nicobar archipelago is home to several primitive tribes, some so isolated that they are still stuck in the stone age. Officials believe they survived the devastation by using age-old early warning systems. They might have run to high ground for safety after noticing changes in the behaviour of birds and marine wildlife. Scientists are examining the possibility to see whether it can be used to predict earth tremors in future.

	04-01-2005 16:11									#106
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Any truth to the rumours that the US base on Diego Garcia detected the tsunami several hours before it struck, but did nothing except to move the destroyers stationed there to safety? I read that somewhere but I don´t remember where...

	04-01-2005 18:58									#107
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I just read the EU and it's members are going to raise €436m ($582m) to aid Southeast Asia of which 267 million have already been assigned.
That's probably the sum of all the numbers that it's member countries have promised.

Japan has announced $500m ( ) and the US $350m

	04-01-2005 19:55									#108
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly Well, I just got back from Thailand... We were lucky. We had planned to go to Phuket but dithered, then couldn't get a room; we changed plans entirely and headed north, to Chiang Mai. The big one hit shortly after we would have landed, had our original plans held (instead we were in the air, having just departed Sukothai). Thailand was, of course, not as badly affected as other nearby countries, and is (I believe) the wealthiest of all the countries hit; so, not surprisingly, they handled the disaster very well. Still, I was mightily impressed. The mood in Thailand was somber but accepting -- as befits a Buddhist nation, I suppose -- even after in was clear that a member of the revered royal family was among the victims. New Year's Eve fireworks displays were cancelled nationwide, and the money donated to the relief effort. We went to Bangkok after Chiang Mai, and everyone there was solicitous to a fault, asking us if we'd been down in Phuket or Phi Phi -- legendary Thai hospitality extended even to this, in spite of the loss of life being overwhelmingly locals, not tourists. We're overwhelmed with affection for the Thai people, and with sadness over the tragedy. Now that we're back, we'll be opening the checkbook, selecting an appropriate charity, and giving what we can.

Wow, a close call for an Apolytoner. Good to hear you're ok.

I have a close friend who has wanted to go to Thailand for some time, and actually did go to SE Asia last week - but he chose to go to Hong Kong this time 'round. Good choice.

-Arrian

	04-01-2005 20:48									#109
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Kamrat X,

even if they would have noticed it, getting the information forwarded to other regional authorities would have been slow. First most likely to Pentagon for a confirmation that it can be informed to other parties and from there maybe to the State Department. Then an embassy or direct contacts to these countries. But by that time it would most likely been anyway too late. Unfortunately diplomacy can be damn too slow.

	04-01-2005 21:08									#110
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Well, the good news is that my former colleague is safe and sound. He was well inland in Thailand when the tsunami struck. He didn't get a chance to e-mail anyone for days. It's great news, as he has a young son with whom he is due to travel cross country by train with next month.

	05-01-2005 05:54									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Kamrat X Any truth to the rumours that the US base on Diego Garcia detected the tsunami several hours before it struck, but did nothing except to move the destroyers stationed there to safety? I read that somewhere but I don´t remember where...

the Tsunami couldn't build up in anticipation of hitting Diego Garcia, it is just a spike sticking out off of the bottom of the ocean.

we don't have a warning system in place for the indian ocean so that was probably just a precaution based on siesmic data, data that everyone has access to.

	05-01-2005 07:52									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Whoha the Tsunami couldn't build up in anticipation of hitting Diego Garcia, it is just a spike sticking out off of the bottom of the ocean. we don't have a warning system in place for the indian ocean so that was probably just a precaution based on siesmic data, data that everyone has access to.

Exactly. The British tabloids, for example, are making much of a 10-year-old girl who recognized telltale signs of a tsunami based on her science class last year and warned her mother, who warned their hotel management, who then got their guests to safer high ground. There was also an entire tribe on one of the islands who got to high ground in time because their shaman knew what it meant when the waters recede that quickly.

What needs to happen is better education and better coordination of info.

	05-01-2005 09:16									#113
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According to the IAC (a creepy psuedo-stalinist outfit that has catpured Ramsey Clark, former U.S. AG), scientists in the U.S. knew the earthquake happened winthin seconds. It doesn't take very long for seismic waves to traverse the planet. Our scientiests even suspected there was a strong possibility for tsunamis. Unfortunately, there is no infrastructure for sharing such information, even up our government ladder. They sent emails to people in countries they thought might be affected, but they got no response.

Apparently, when the Pacific warning system was being set up, it was recommended that two buoys be placed in the Indian Ocean, but was rejected because each buoy costs $250,000. Too bad.

	05-01-2005 16:03									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Do tsunamis ever occur in the North or South Atlantic Ocean areas? I've never heard of one occurring there.

" ACR.10 MEMPHIS, 29th August 1916, Caribbean Sea, in Santo Domingo harbour, Dominican Republic (c 18-50’N, 70-00’W) - driven ashore and totally wrecked by (100ft?) tsunami or tidal wave of seismic origin; hurricane in some sources. On peace-keeping duties in Dominican waters during a rebellion. At anchor at the time, with a boatload of 'Memphis' sailors returning from shore-leave. As she was driven ashore, engine room personnel made every effort to give her manoeuvring power. The Medal of Honor was awarded to Engineering Lt Claud Jones, Chief Machinist's Mate George Rud (posthumous), and Machinist Charles Willey; some 40 men dead or missing, 200 badly injured. "

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1NavyUS.htm


and don't have long term plans for real estate investment in Florida or coastal Texas:

"In the Atlantic, a grave threat in addition to distant earthquakes is the collapse of a volcano across the ocean.

Volcano-induced tsunamis, which occur when huge amounts of heaped-up volcanic material slide into the sea, have occurred innumerable times with local effects. But one will happen with catastrophic impact, scientists believe, during a future eruption of a big volcano such as Cumbre Vieja in the Canary Islands off northwestern Africa.

The tsunami from the predicted collapse of Cumbre Vieja, fanning out across the Atlantic at about 500 mph, would drown Florida within nine hours with waves from 33 to 82 feet high, according to a 2001 estimate by scientists at the University of California and London's University College. That's enough to put nearly all of Florida under water and damage the whole country's Atlantic coastline.

In the Gulf of Mexico, the risk isn't from earthquakes or volcanoes, but from another little-known source: underwater landslides that generate huge waves.

It's not a theoretical threat to the Texas coast; it's already happened.

An undersea landslide - technically, a "slump" - about 90 miles off Galveston once sent some 12 to 14 cubic miles of earth sliding down. The slump at the gulf's East Breaks formation threw a tsunami estimated at 25 feet high onto the Texas shoreline, according to researchers who have studied its geological aftermath on the gulf floor.

That was about 5,000 to 10,000 years ago - many lifetimes for humans, but a blink in geological time. Peter Trabant, a marine hazards consultant in Houston who has studied the landslide, said there's no reason to believe that it won't happen again.

"If it happened again, it would rush over all the barrier islands, including Galveston Island, and all the coastal cities - Port Arthur, Galveston, Freeport, Corpus Christi," Trabant said. "There's definitely a possibility that this could happen at any time."

Still, the likelihood that it will happen anytime soon seems so small that Texas has done nothing to plan for it.

Texas' official emergency plans, which deal in detail with hurricanes, tornadoes, floods, fires and a host of other natural or human-induced catastrophes, don't mention tsunamis, said William Ayres, spokesman for the state Division of Emergency Management.

If a tsunami threatened the Texas coast, Ayres said, officials would use the warning and evacuation plans already in place for hurricanes to get people out of harm's way.

That's a problem, however. Emergency planners can track a hurricane for days. Even an earthquake- or volcano-induced tsunami can allow for hours to get people away from the most dangerous areas.

But a landslide-induced tsunami might offer no warning at all. Earthquake monitoring systems wouldn't pick it up, experts say. So the first time the public knows about the tsunami might be when it slams into the shore.

"You can't detect them," said Harry Woodworth, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service. "You don't have much time to react."

http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/ml...on/10549345.htm

Galveston has been affected by the abstraction of water for domestic/industrial use-

' 1900 6,000 killed when a hurricane & tidal wave strikes Galveston, Texas most deadly in US history '

http://www.wildabout.co.uk/today/0908.htm

	05-01-2005 16:14									#115
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Rasbelin, Whoha Ok, thanks. Just checking

	05-01-2005 19:07									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa I just read the EU and it's members are going to raise €436m ($582m) to aid Southeast Asia of which 267 million have already been assigned. That's probably the sum of all the numbers that it's member countries have promised. Japan has announced $500m ( ) and the US $350m

Don't know if that has been posted before, but Germany today announced 500 million €. Cynics tell that this could have to do with Germany's plan to become UN veto power. I guess these are the same who tell that India's helping others only due to the same reason, and the US only helps to improve its own image. However, I'm mainly glad that the money is spent to help people....

	05-01-2005 20:50									#117
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Germany to donate half a bill?

to Germany!

	05-01-2005 21:05									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Do tsunamis ever occur in the North or South Atlantic Ocean areas? I've never heard of one occurring there.

While tsunamis in the atlantic may be rare. Tthe phenomena of rogue waves is not as rare with anumber of them happening every year. There was a recent article in Popular Science that discussed rogue waves (waves in open ocean that can be attain 100+ foot crests) that cause a number of lost ships particularly in the North Seas and Cape of Good Hope areas.

	05-01-2005 22:08									#119
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I'm disgusted in my goverment... We are the 5th richest nation on the planet... And we donate 65 million krónur, about 1 million dollars!!! The from telephone fundraising there are 70 million krónur more (about 245 kr pr person)

And they could spend 200 million krónur on a stupid icecube in France!!

	05-01-2005 23:39									#120
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Is the world getting in a donation pissing contest?