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Commy
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St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:34
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So like, say for your capital city, what order do you build your improvements and units and settlers and such?
I always build a warrior, then either a curragh or scout, depending on civ, then I build my settler. Next goes a spearmen or hoplite, and then a temple, followed by another spearmen or hoplite and then I go to a wonder...
After the wonders done, comes a library and then a marketplace...then, depending on conditions, another wonder...
Ultimately, I just have my capital city build 2 settlers, then let it build up...
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chuckdelicious
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If you want to grow your civ, Commy, I suggest you look into building them. Most of us will use some early cities as settler and/or worker pumps. Granaries allow you to produce these units more quickly.
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Cort Haus
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London
Apr 2002
time: 05:34
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Difficulty level, Civ traits, map type, local terrain all make a difference. On Regent you're pretty free to build what you like, and to a lesser extent on Monarch. At Emperor you are more restricted, and above that you have to get it right or you're in trouble.
Early priorities are to explore, grow, research, defend. Higher difficulty levels make all these both harder and more important.
On Pangea maps, contact with other civs is important to stay in the tech loop, so more warriors / scouts are needed early on with these maps.
As already stated, most players here will want a granary soon to churn out faster settlers. This will often be in the capital. Another advantage of granaries is that in sustaining/growing pop, more roaded tiles can be worked by cities for commerce -> research.
Being Militaristic or Religious offers cheap barracks or temples, both of which can benefit warmongery in the short and longer terms. A very early temple or two helps agains culture flips later in the game, and a barracks/granary combo in a low-food capital can alternate settlers and vet warriors/archers/spears to escort them. 10-12 early vet warriors can be handy to have around later on for a mass upgrade when Iron is connected.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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Warning: DAR with pic and descriptions follows.
4000 BC: Worker moves 2. This is the tile I'll want to work if I found here, and I will likely found right on the start; but, if the worker sees a food source I can get by moving, I will do so.
Worker sees a game tile! That's essentially a wheat on grass once the forest is chopped down. However, I'll get that tile in 10 turns anyway; I'd gain +1 spt by moving, but that would lose me some food and 2 shields; not to mention I'd have to either move away from the river or found on a bonus grass. So, I found Thebes right where the settler is.
After founding, I can see water to the west. No more food resources; that's a bummer. Even a wine would have given me that magical +5 food per turn.
I set research on pottery. You never know who you're going to meet, and unless I find a +5 food per turn spot, Thebes will be building a granary ASAP. Build stays on warrior.
3950 BC: I order the worker to road. Because of the way the builds of two warrors work out, mining first actually wouldn't get me the first sooner, and the second will be cut to 4 turns even if I road first. And this way I get a little more commerce.
3850 BC: Worker starts mining.
3750 BC: My first warrior completes; I'll send him out exploring.
Because I have a food resource that puts me near +5 fpt, my first priority will be to explore the area around it. This way, if there are more food sources close by that will give me a +5 fpt pump, I'll know before I have to decide between a settler and a granary.
The warrior moves 6 to start with.
3700 BC: The warrior moves 3 on to a mountain. Hope begins to fade for finding +5 fpt, but there's still a chance; he'll move south on that chance.
3650 BC: The worker finishes mining. Since I still have 5 more turns to go on warriors (I'm going to build all three), I don't want to chop the forest just yet; so, I move the worker 9 on to the bonus grass 3 of Thebes.
3600 BC: The worker roads. I don't want to spend the time on a mine, and the worker can move back on the road and mine once it's done with the game tile.
The warrior moves 2, and discovers two cattle tiles!
I now know my strategy. I will found two cites, one 2-2 of Thebes, the other 3-3-3 of Thebes. These two cities will build granaries and share the three (irrigated) food tiles. Since each tile will give +2 fpt, this will give each city either +4 or +6 fpt depending on which one gets the cattle in the middle; I'll alterante this so that each gets +10 fpt every two turns, giving me two food pumps that grow every 2 turns.
Once the game is chopped and irrigated, Thebes will grow every 5 turns. That should be good enough to get two settlers out of it for these two cities.
So, it turns out I probably could have researched something else before pottery (The Wheel?), since it will take a while to found the two cities, and they could have used Barracks as pre-builds. But, if there hadn't been other food sources out there and I wanted to build a granary right away in Thebes, that wouldn't have worked; so I'm still happy with my decision to research pottery first.
 Attachment: bc3600.foodpumps.jpg
This has been downloaded 197 time(s).
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Dominae
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I would move the Worker South, then, assuming this does not reveal anything interesting, settle right away on the starting location. The reason I would move the Worker South is that River Bonus Grasslands are the best tile to improve in sight, and S is preferable to SE first because from the SE Bonus Grassland it can then use Roads to move to the northern one.
Depending on the type of game that I want to play (considering that this is Emperor meaning I would have quite a bit of leeway), I would have many options with this start. In the capital, I could either build Warriors, a Granary, or a Barracks then Archers. Each has its own strengths on Emperor. If this were Demigod or higher I would use the Bonus Grasslands to build a quick Granary. In both cases I would adjust my strategy around Bonus Food resources, if any were revealed.
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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Krill: Indeed, I was.  Decided to skip over that, though. Even I can have my fill of food at times, and the new pump locations would have had more corruption and less bonii...
Anyway, continuing:
3550 BC: My second warrior completes. I'll send this one north to explore in that direction and try to find other civilizations.
This will leave me without a garrison during the first turns of population 2, which means I'll have to use the luxury slider to keep the population happy. No big deal; when you have only one city, the luxury slider is a very exact thing, with little waste, and should always be used when you need it. And the commerce I'll pay is quite worth it to get my warrior out there ASAP. So, anyway, he moves 8
My first warrior will continue exploring the south a little more, and then head east. He moves 2 on to a mountain, and sees ANOTHER cattle! Wow. Hmm. I could found a city 2-2-2-1 of Thebes, which would be 5 distance, and mine rather than irrigate two of the cattle, which would hopefully make up for the greater corruption (5 distance rather than 3 at 2-2-2-1). I'll have to think about that as the settler completes.
3500 BC: Thebes grows. I put the new citizen on the bonus grass that was just roaded (the extra shield the forest offers won't help until 2 turns from now when the third warrior completes), up the luxury slider, and move the worker on to the game forest.
3450 BC: The worker begins chopping.
I have my warrior next to a hut, but I don't think I'll pop it. It's emperor so I'll probably just get barbs.
3400 BC: My third warrior completes. I decide to continue using the luxury slider and send it northeast. My first warrior, currently exploring the southwest to make sure there aren't any more food sources, will return once he's done to garrison Thebes.
Thebes starts building a settler, and I move the citizen on the tile 3 to the game, for an extra shield.
3300 BC: Chop finished. With the reduction in spt (but addition of 10 shileds to the build) and the increase in fpt, the settler will now complete in 4 turns just as the city grows to 3; perfect. The worker begins to irrigate. I move the game citizen back to the roaded bonus grass for now for more commerce; we don't need the extra food just yet.
The warrior in the south finishes looking around the southwest area by Thebes. It seems it really is just 4 food resources close at hand. 
3200 BC: Research on Pottery finishes. Next: The Wheel
Also, I move the Thebes second citizen back to the game tile. Need to do that to make it grow in time.
3150 BC: The worker finishes irrigating the game tile.
3100 BC: First settler! What to do with the pump sites?
Thing is, if I move the cattle pump, the game pump will have to move too, so we actually get all cattle inside initial borders. And then their corruption ranks will be upset by closer-in cities I want to found west and north of Thebes.
So, I'll go ahead as planned. That third cattle will be in the cattle pump's boundaries with a temple someday.
Now, which to found first? Travel time for the settler is two turns either way. But, the game tile doesn't get any new food resources in our boundaries. So, cattle pump first. The settler moves 2.
Thebes only has one citizen left; I move it to the game tile. Build switched to a warrior for the moment, though I may change that to a settler once I calculate build and growth times (I'll only do that once I have to )
3050 BC: The settler moves in to position. It will found the city next turn.
The worker, now finished with the game tile, moves on to the forst 9 of the settler. Chopping htis will kill two birds with one stone: The shields will go to the new pump city, which will speed up its granary build, AND this will give us a regular grass tile to irrigate to get water to the two cattle tiles. (The other two tiles, if you'll look on the map, are both bonii, and one is already mined. Of course, it may be there's a bonus grass tile underneath, in which case we'll end up irrigating a bonus anyway.)
3000 BC: Memphis founded. It works the mined bonus grass, to get that granary built ASAP. Thebes continues to work the game so it can get another settler out ASAP.
Meanwhile, a warrior makes CONTACT with the Iroquois! They won't even accept Masonry & CB for Bronze Working, the turds.
2900 BC: Warrior makes contact with Babylon! They have BW & Alphabet, as well as Warrior Code, and they have The Wheel as well! We're not going to be able to make a deal with them.
But, it seems Alphabet and BW have cheapened enough that we can get either one, plus 10 gold, from the Iroquois. While BW gives spears, Alphabet is more expensive, so I'll take that.
2850 BC: Thebes grows. Also, I can see that it needs to do another settler right away, since it can.
The worker finishes chopping and begins a road.
2750 BC: The worker irrigates.
2630 BC: Worker moves on to the first cattle.
I'm now faced with a choice: I can lose 2 food in Thebes but get the settler one turn sooner (work a forest), or keep the 2 food and delay the settler a turn. I decide to get the settler sooner; the new city will grow as soon as its founded and make up the two food, and it can begin its granary sooner.
Also, I have to turn the luxury slider on again to keep Thebes happy. No big deal.
2590 BC: Contact with Greece! I trade them Masory for BW and 6 gold.
The worker on the first cattle begins irrigation.
2550 BC: Memphis grows. I have to move the luxury slider up a notch to get one of its commerce going to entertainment, but there's still no waste as this doesn't make Thebes move a second commerce there.
2510 BC: Thebes completes its second settler! I switch the build to a warrior, and have Memphis work the game tile, giving Thebes the mined bonus for now.
2470 BC: Irrigation of the first cattle complete. The second pump (Heliopolis) founded.
Workerforce switcharound: Thebes gets the game, Heliopolis gets the irrigated cattle, and Memphis works the unimproved cattle and the mined bonus. This way, Thebes and Heliopolis get speedy growth; and Memphis will complete the granary just before it grows (I'll switch it off the cattle next turn to do that) so that it will grow, and get the granary's +10 food on the pop 2-pop 3 growth, just after the granary finishes.
Science is at 100% and I'll get the Wheel in 2 turns.
This is all for now, but I intend to continue this later. I'll continue this level of detail for how I use the +5 pumps, just in case that hasn't been shown enough around here.
Attachment: bc2470.foodtriangle.jpg
This has been downloaded 190 time(s).
Last edited by Kloreep on 05-01-2005 at 04:10
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GodKing
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Detroit
Feb 2002
time: 00:34
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Move worker south, to road and mine while exploring prior to founding the city.
Found the city in the start location. Nothing special on this start.
First build is a warrior for scouting. He moves towards the mountain to the east, then the one to the north as we appear to be in the southern hemisphere. Want to get to find the jungle areas to get an idea if I am on continents, islands, or pangia.
First research is pottery, at 90% (so I don’t have to worry about lowering it later).
Cultural expansion finds me the two cows. Looks like I have city site #2.
3rd warrior goes south to scout out the 2nd city site, and finds the 3rd cow. Nice. I adjust my city placement to add it in. Now I have a city pump that can do both settlers and workers, but only 1 so far. It will also be nice for production purposes later on. I prefer wheat on flood plains… but who is going to be that picky….
My northern scout finds some flood plains, but about 15 tiles to the north…. Dang, far away. The same turn I pop a goodie hut to the SE, and get barbs. Nice.
3000 bc, meet the Iroquois up by my floodplains. They don’t want to trade for either of my techs, not do they want to trade their techs. SOB’s. Looks like I have found my first target.
2nd research is the wheel, as with all these flat lands, fast movement will be a must.
I experiment, and use one pop to rush a granary in my first city. I never did that before, but the timing for it was perfect.
As the Iroquois are still unwilling to trade with me on the second turn of contact, I decide to declare war and steal their two workers with my single 3hp warrior. I send the slaves marching towards home (hoping no barbs are around) and keep the warrior around to pillage whatever they have. I don’t intend on battling them, just hurting them to weaken them for a real invasion later.
The SOB’s have incense next to their cap, along with floodplains. They also pop rushed a spear. Lucky them. I will just pillage and run. Dang, before I can do anything, they rush me with two warriors, and kill me off quick. Now, it is just a race to see if I can make peace with them before I have to actually do anything.
After killing off one of his warriors with my remaining scout… Hiawatha is all happy to make peace. He still won’t trade me anything, but hey, I traded 1 warrior for 2 slaves… I am happy.
I meet Greece, who trades me BW and 35 gold for Masonry and CB. Not a good deal, but acceptable. The gold will be nice so I can run a deficit for a bit. Wish I had a lux around here.
I find a nice cluster of spices to my NW, and decide to send city #2 that way to colonize it asap. Ya, it is far and away, but I want the lux before anybody else steals it. I might decide differently if I find horses.
WOW, I am going with a real loose city spacing. Have met the babs and English. Both are stingy bastards. Got 2 iron, and 1 horse locked in. Very weak army – going to focus on that for a bit.
Try the philo gambit, miss it by 1 turn. Darn. Go for lit next, to get the GL. Best way to catch up in tech I think.
After finishing out REX, I did a bunch of tech whoring. Got republic, switched governments, and made agreements with the Greek and Iroquois for ROP, so I sent a couple of chariots to scout out their lands. The babs are being the biggest jerks, so I have decided that they will make fine examples, particularly as the Iroc don’t have horses, and thus are not a real threat.
The war with the Babs triggered my GA, just prior to entering the middle ages. Made peace with them after 13 turns. Took about ½ of their empire. The turn I ended the war, I built the Great Library. Hopefully, it will boost me up to education (or wherever the AI is in the research path). I saved the game here. This is proving to be a fun one.
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Tarquinius
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Wow Kloreep, nice detailed explanation of your strategy.
My question is: how big will your pump cities be? Because they will need to produce 30 shields in four turns. And as they are not capitals I guess they will need to be size 5?
And what will Thebes do, military build up? Or a wonder?
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarquinius
Wow Kloreep, nice detailed explanation of your strategy.
My question is: how big will your pump cities be? Because they will need to produce 30 shields in four turns. And as they are not capitals I guess they will need to be size 5? |
I think starting at 4, and going to 5 while buliding a settler, should be enough. 6-8(6+2 from growth)-7-9(7+2 from growth) is enough to complete a settler. With 1 shield from the city tile, you can get 6 spt at size 4. I will have to see how much corruption gets in the way, though. At least this is a large map; that will help.
Memphis will be tough because it can't get 2 shields from growth unless there's a vacant mined bonus grass, something I don't see happening. But I desperately need some workers anyway, so I'll probably have it doing 2-turn workers for a little while till I can figure something out. (Temple and a mined hill, perhaps, though that's expensive.) I could also do 5-turn settlers there to supplement the 4-turn, intentionally stunting its growth on the 5-6 journey and make it three turns, and giving it less shields to make the settler build 5 turns total. Not perfect, but certainly a heck of a lot better than just 1 4-turn settler pump; and finding the shields for a 5-turn settler is much much easier than finding them for a 4-turn.
quote:
Originally posted by Tarquinius
And what will Thebes do, military build up? Or a wonder? |
Military. No time for a wonder even if I thought I could get one in the ancient age; while the AI may not have the intelligence to attack like a human would in this situation, there are always barbarians to worry about. I don't even have enough military for my three current cities, let alone the settlers I want to be spewing out eventually.
I'll think about wonders once the MA, with stuff like Leo's and Bach's, is closer.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:34
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A short DAR, with a screenie.
4000 BC- Settle Thebes on the spot, start building a Warrior.
- Worker moves 3 to start a Mine.
- Start researching Pottery at 100%.
- Both Bonus Grasslands near the River will be Mined and Roaded. After that the Game Forest will get Chopped to speed up a build (most certainly a Granary).
3750 BC- Warrior ready in Thebes, another one started. This is the first scout - going to explore north. We're south - near the pole, so contacts will be to the north.
3650 BC- Road done, Worker moves 1 (to Thebes 2) to start a Mine. Saving the Chop of the Game Forest for the Granary.
3550 BC- Second Warrior ready, Thebes starts another one. This guy will stay on MP duty.
3400 BC- Third Warrior ready - this one will scout our home (south). Thebes starts Barracks as a prebuild for the Granary.
- Warrior scouting to the north finds the third hut. Too bad we're not Expansionistic.
3350 BC- AHA! Meeting with a Warrior of the Iroquis. They give us Alphabet, Pottery (was 3 turns from completion), and 10 Gold for Ceremonial Burial, and Masonry.
- Thebes switched to Granary.
- Pop barbarians from the hut near the Iroquis Warrior. I just had to try one. It was far from the capital, I swear.
- Warrior going south spots a 3rd Cows south of Thebes.
- Start Writing at 10%, 50 turns. Yes, a Philosphy beeline.
3300 BC- Our Warrior killed two barbs, and was promoted to Veteran. Needs to rest for a turn. One barb left.
- Iroquis Warrior went north! Very lucky start indeed.
- Our fourth Warrior goes to Gold Mountain, to see what riches are beyond it. Planning to explore east after that.
- Writing can be sped up a notch by moving the science slider to 100%, and going with -1gpt for a while. So I do that.
3200 BC- Iroquis Warrior almost gets killed by a barb. Almost. Oh well, better luck next time.
- Scouting to the south, we find we're on a peninsula. What a surprise.
3050 BC- Forest Chopped, Granary has a nice wooden roof now. Worker starts Irrigating the place.
- Scouting to the east shows thet the peninsula is pretty slim - coast reached. This Warrior will turn north now.
- The Iroquis acquired Bronze Working somewhere. Probably a meeting of tribes occured to them.
2950 BC- MM Thebes to grow just after the Granary is ready.
- Scouting to the north brings good news again. We meet the Babylonians. Apparently they don't know the Iroquis yet (suckers
 ). We give Masonry, Alphabet, 1gpt, 15gp. They give Warrior Code, The Wheel.
- The Iroquis get Warrior Code for Bronze Working. Tech parity reached.
- But, we had to reduce science spending, delaying Writing by 3 turns. Oh well.
- The northern Warrior will go west now. He'll turn north again after he finds a coast, or another AI.
- The Worker will bring Irrigation to the Cows, by using a Grassland tile.
- Our other Warrior has found loads of Whales just east of Thebes. This is the third time my city-planning department got headaches. Too many good choices, I tell ya. Nice job creating the riddles, mistah Krill.
2590 BC- Some great Grassland sea, with Wheat and Horses found to the north-east. It might be a little to close to the Iroquis. We'll see...
- Settler done. Now, since I don't use temporary cities, I'll have to twist things a bit. I want a Settler-pump, but I won't get two with this aproach. Settler goes to Thebes 3322. The better way (allowing 2 Settler-pumps, and bringing Irrigation to the Cows) was a city at Thebes 32. Oh well, I don't like camps, so sue me.
- The exploring Warrior (now north-west from home) finds something that might be a coast.
2510 BC- We meet the Greeks. They appear to be somewhere north of the Iroquis. And they have a big technological lag.
- Memphis settled 3322 from Thebes. With Irrigation on the first Cow nearly done, the city will make a Worker, and then a Granary.
2390 BC- Finally, the Greeks have something for Sale. For Masonry and Ceremonial Burial, they give two Slaves and 10 Gold.
 (4 civs have met already, so tech cost has fallen dramatically - usually I'd expect one tech to get me the Workers).
- One Slave starts a Road north. The faster we start settling there, the better.
- The second one prepares a Chop for the Granary in Memphis.
2190 BC- Lost one of 3 scouting Warriors to a wandering barbarian. One Warrior scouting NW from home is almost done discovering the coastline, that will belong to the Babylonians.
- Settle Heliopolis at Memphis 441. Queue: Warrior (MP), Curragh, Temple (get the Whales), Granary.
- Next Settler, once completed, will go to Thebes 88.
And the screenie. Red dots are planned cities. No longer plans made, because I don't know a) the eastern shoreline b) how the Iroquis' expansion will go.
Attachment: start.jpg
This has been downloaded 162 time(s).
Last edited by Modo44 on 06-01-2005 at 05:59
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Dominae
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Below is the turn-by-turn of what I would have done. Sorry for the lack of screenshot, I will try to post one later on sometime.
At the end of 40 turns, I am 7 turns away from Alphabet, mainly because of my decision to build a Barracks in the capital. I probably would not have done this on Demigod in order to stay ahead of the tech pace. On Emperor, however, an early attack (Archer or War Chariot) is still an option, and coming from behind in tech still a possibility.
Cities: 2
Pop: 9
Workers: 3
Settlers: 0 (one next turn)
Warriors: 1
Barracks: 1
Granaries: 2
Mines: 4
Irrigation: 3
Roads: 8
code:
4000BC: Worker moves S
Settler found Thebes
Thebes begins Pyramids
Research Pottery
Science 100%
3950BC: Worker begins Road
3850BC: Worker completes Road, begins Mine
3650BC: Worker completes Mine, moves NE
3600BC: Worker begins Mine
3500BC: Thebes 2, borders expand
Luxuries 10%
3400BC: Worker completes Mine, begins Road
3300BC: Worker completes Road, moves SE
3250BC: Worker begins chop Forest
Science 70%
3200BC: Discover Pottery
Thebes switches to Granary
Research Alphabet
Science 90%
3150BC: Thebes completes Granary, begins Settler
EOT Worker completes Chop Forest
3100BC: Worker begins Road
3050BC: Thebes 3
Luxuries 80%
3000BC: Worker completes Road, begins Irrigation
2950BC: Thebes completes Settler, begins Worker
Thebes 1
Settler moves S
Science 100%
2900BC: Settler moves S
EOT Worker completes Irrigation
2850BC: Thebes 2
Settler founds Memphis
Memphis begins Granary
Worker moves SW
Luxuries 10%
2800BC: Thebes completes Worker2, begins Barracks
Thebes 1
Worker1 begins Chop Forest
Worker2 moves SE-SE-S along Roads
Science 100%
2750BC: Worker2 begins Road
2710BC: Thebes 2
Luxuries 10%
EOT Worker1 completes Chop Forest
2670BC: Worker1 begins Irrigation
Worker2 completes Road, moves SW
2630BC: Worker2 begins Road
Science 80%
2590BC: Thebes 3
Luxuries 30%
Science 60%
2550BC: Memphis 2
Worker1 completes Irrigation, moves W
Worker2 completes Road, begins Irrigation
Luxuries 20%
Science 70%
2510BC: Worker1 begins Road
2470BC: Thebes 4
Luxuries 30%
Science 60%
EOT Worker2 completes Irrigation
2430BC: Thebes completes Barracks, begins Worker
Worker1 completes Road, moves SE-E along Roads, begins Mine
Worker2 joins Worker1, begins Mine
2350BC: Thebes 5
Memphis 3
Thebes completes Warrior, begins Worker
Worker1 and Worker2 complete Mine, move W-NW along Roads, begin Mine
Warrior moves SE-SE-S along Roads
Luxuries 50%
Science 40%
2310BC: Warrior moves S, attacks and defeats Barb
Luxuries 40%
Science 40%
2270BC: Thebes completes Worker3, begins Warrior
Thebes 4
Worker1 and Worker2 complete Mine
Worker1 moves NW
Worker2 moves S
Worker3 moves N
Warrior moves N
Luxuries 40%
Science 40%
2230BC: Thebes 5
Memphis completes Granary, begins Settler
Worker1 begins Road
Worker2 begins Road
Worker3 begins Mine
Warrior moves along Roads into Thebes
Luxuries 40%
Science 30%
2190BC: Luxuries 40%
Science 30%
2150BC: Memphis 4
Worker1 completes Road, begins Mine
Worker2 completes Road, joins Worker1, begins Mine
Luxuries 50%
Science 40%
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Dominae
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Not to put words in Modo's mouth, but: I believe Memphis was placed where it is in order to get a second pump going, and Heliopolis founded third in order to access that second Cattle. He's only got three cities, but I'm sure the next few would be around Rivers to the North.
Edit: That said, I placed Memphis two tiles South of Thebes.
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03-01-2005 08:55
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