08-01-2005 21:53									#1
	Cheat-/-bug-/-exploitations Thread Full PM-box? Change here!

Please keep discussion to a legitimate level and pertinent information.

Ok

Unless agreed upon:

Bugs and cheats and exploitations:

Farm under city bug is a cheat

Pathing a ship to find land-not a cheat

Floor open

	09-01-2005 00:38									#2
	Put an end to popups!

thanks for opening the thread.
but before we go about listing bugs and cheats, we should think about how to decide what is and what is not a cheat. i guess for most issues the experienced players will be able to tell if it has been considered a cheat in the past. if something is unclear, a majority decision via a poll (over a longer time period) could decide.

	09-01-2005 00:51									#3
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I agree

then aybe we could involve Solver as I dont know if its possible

to cut and past then lock a thread and maybe kinda top it so we could agree then he puts it where it wont be spammed or lost in a hundred post count thread

just a thought is all

Gramps

	09-01-2005 00:58									#4
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

dito

	09-01-2005 02:14									#5
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Come to a conclusion and I'll do what needs to be done .

	09-01-2005 02:23									#6
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oh, you mean you'll top it once we've listed a couple of cheats ? fair enough.

but first
another episode of StarGate...

Attachment: stargate.jpg
This has been downloaded 40 time(s).

	09-01-2005 03:36									#7
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Don't scare the newest players here by posting too much of Teal'c .

	09-01-2005 04:07									#8
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thanks Solver

Gramps

	09-01-2005 10:56									#9
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Changing the queue after rush buying in order to speed up production is a cheat.

Replaying a turn using different decisions is a cheat.

	09-01-2005 18:23									#10
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Also, everyone should remember that PBEM games are based on mutual trust. Since many cheats are impossible to detect (like, you can load the turn and replay it 10 times theoretically), it's all about players trusting each other not to use those cheats. Therefore, have respect for your opponents.

	09-01-2005 19:10									#11
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always, Solver !

btw, what if you accidentally attack some units because of a graphics bug ? is it allowed to restart the turn ?

	09-01-2005 19:11									#12
	Re: Cheat-/-bug-/-exploitations Thread Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll Farm under city bug is a cheat Floor open

Why is farm under city a cheat?
I normally dont use it because i dont have pw early.
I wonder why it isnt mentiond in the ctp strategyguide (The book).
The writers didnt know much about the game

	09-01-2005 19:16									#13
	Tired of ads?

well, basically it seems like a lot of people agreed on it being a cheat.
btw, even i admit that it is a bug. i even do think now that the bug is in fact that the farm is not removed if you time it right, rather than the bug being that the farm is removed if you dont.

and using a bug to your advantage that others may not know about is a cheat in my eyes.

	09-01-2005 19:21									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician well, basically it seems like a lot of people agreed on it being a cheat. btw, even i admit that it is a bug. i even do think now that the bug is in fact that the farm is not removed if you time it right, rather than the bug being that the farm is removed if you dont. and using a bug to your advantage that others may not know about is a cheat in my eyes.

There sould be the roule that everyone have to read the threads, then there are no advantages

	09-01-2005 19:24									#15
	Get a bigger avatar today!

the question simply is:
do you want new players to have to read a bunch of threads or do you want experienced players to, well, basically read some other threads.

	09-01-2005 19:29									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician the question simply is: do you want new players to have to read a bunch of threads or do you want experienced players to, well, basically read some other threads.

If everyone knows it is possible to built a mine under a city, where is ther cheat?
I know it but I never do it, but i should do it in some games with some players in the future. But I will not cheat.

	09-01-2005 19:33									#17
	Got spare money?

the assumption of your statement, that everyone knows it, is wrong.
moreover, if you deliberately use something to your advantage that you know or have reason to believe that your opponent will believe to be illegal and not use, you are effectively cheating. if you and your opponent agree before the game to deviate from the standard rules, it is not cheating anymore. and the standard is what we are trying to compile and/or define here.

	09-01-2005 19:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician the assumption of your statement, that everyone knows it, is wrong. moreover, if you deliberately use something to your advantage that you know or have reason to believe that your opponent will believe to be illegal and not use, you are effectively cheating. if you and your opponent agree before the game to deviate from the standard rules, it is not cheating anymore. and the standard is what we are trying to compile and/or define here.

I accept the democratic apolyton rules.
But games where everything is allowed are really fun, because you can megacivs very fast, the best civs are built with rush buy granery-settler and mine under city and market-caravan and with all the dirty bugs.
Es ist geil wenn man alles machbare aus dem spiel herausholt und jemanden gegen sich hat der das auch macht.
Can you translate that?

	09-01-2005 19:43									#19
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

i could. but i think you could as well.
however, i suspect you wont do it. so i wont do it either.

	09-01-2005 20:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician i could. but i think you could as well. however, i suspect you wont do it. so i wont do it either.

	09-01-2005 20:20									#21
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Thanks for the feedback guys

As time permits maybe we could simply edit out what is and is not pertinent (once agreed upon) then maybe set as a sort of rules to go by

Filix

I agree if in a game and all are aware and understand how to use then no problems...but not everyone knows the gold crack or other less than acceptable ways

ok

keep 'em coming

Gramps

	09-01-2005 20:24									#22
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician btw, what if you accidentally attack some units because of a graphics bug ? is it allowed to restart the turn ?

how about that ?

	09-01-2005 20:58									#23
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I guess the following goes as a cheat. Some times in PBEM-games, when you end you turn, you might get a message meant to the next player asking about should a city build a settler next turn, even if the city has only a population of one. You can click yes, and your opponent gets quite annoyed by losing a city for nothing. Especialy when it was the capitol

	09-01-2005 20:58									#24
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Mathemagician how about that ?

again Math

This reverts back to trust

I would think if someone honestly , due to a graphics error attacks a unit inadvertently, I dont think it is a cheat to reload turn

as long as this is the exception and not the rule

Thats my take on it

Gramps

	09-01-2005 21:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Pave I guess the following goes as a cheat. Some times in PBEM-games, when you end you turn, you might get a message meant to the next player asking about should a city build a settler next turn, even if the city has only a population of one. You can click yes, and your opponent gets quite annoyed by losing a city for nothing. Especialy when it was the capitol

But it doesnt actually happen does it?

I did that in a hotseat game playing myself and found it didtnt carry over to other persons turn, as they were allowed same option as you..just declined to build the city

GT

	10-01-2005 00:57									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Also, everyone should remember that PBEM games are based on mutual trust. Since many cheats are impossible to detect (like, you can load the turn and replay it 10 times theoretically), it's all about players trusting each other not to use those cheats. Therefore, have respect for your opponents.

Most of this have been discussed many times - but much is now in the CTP-archive.

Therefore I suggest Solver top this thread and Troll "make" hyperlinks to the most important of the old threads IN HIS FIRST POST HERE - that is editing and adding in that post.

I will provide as many links as I can re-find of the old ones. And of course I will "high-light" the ones I find most important and just mention others.

Please fell free to help here anybody.

	10-01-2005 00:59									#27
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Grandpa Troll But it doesnt actually happen does it? I did that in a hotseat game playing myself and found it didtnt carry over to other persons turn, as they were allowed same option as you..just declined to build the city GT

No it dosn't. The "real owner" of a city is also asked and his/her (well, we do not presently have any "hers") decision is the one counting.

	10-01-2005 01:11									#28
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quote: Originally posted by TheBirdMan No it dosn't. The "real owner" of a city is also asked and his/her (well, we do not presently have any "hers") decision is the one counting.

thanks for confirming

	10-01-2005 07:36									#29
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of course no "auto advancing turns".." a free lookie" at opponents turns this is indeed a no no

	10-01-2005 22:20									#30
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quote: Originally posted by checkMate Changing the queue after rush buying in order to speed up production is a cheat.

Do you mean rushbuying 1 production type and then swith to another more expensive?

There are 3 production types, Buildnings(Cheap), Units(expensive) and Wonders(VERY expensive).

Imo rusbuying a colluseum and then switch to a wonder is a cheat since the cost per production is much higher for wonders.
Switching from one building to another for example from temple to a Factory after rusbuying the temple is no cheat. The ammount of production you gain per gold invested is the same as if you rushbuy something completley. I see this as an tactical option.

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