14-01-2005 14:30									#271
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Afghanistan, the sleeper? I'm curious about how you are going to spin this into a quagmire for the US.

No Iraq is the quagmire.

Do try and keep up Dan

	14-01-2005 17:39									#272
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It's a sad fact that giving the place back to Saddam to run would probably lead to less death and dismemberment than any other course of action.

Considering that the Americans dismembered his army and security apparatus, why should he have any an easier time than anyone else restoring order?

	14-01-2005 18:08									#273
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we're trying to make a point here and thats not it...

hey, never mind..

	14-01-2005 18:27									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I even posted a link to the first thread in my message.

No, sorry. Have a look. Anyway, it doesn't matter. I should have at checked all the threads before posting.

	14-01-2005 18:29									#275
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The problem with the "Salvador" option is that in Central America all of the fighting took place in rural areas. In iraq the fighting is going on in the cities. this will make using irregular "counter-insurgents" much more difficult. Baghdad would become an even worse battle zone than it already is. Oh, and let me point out that operations against terrorist strong holds, such as Faluja (sp) have already been conducted. Have they had a noticeable effect on the ability of the insurgents to continue their campaign.

	14-01-2005 18:30									#276
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Anti-fascists are just another kind of fascists. I really mean it. We have them here in Sweden, and they are as violent as the fascists they oppose.

I'm not following. Anyone who is opposed to fascism - an anti-fascist - is also a fascist? Or does the term have a specific meaning in Sweden?

	14-01-2005 18:36									#277
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quote: Originally posted by techumseh I'm not following. Anyone who is opposed to fascism - an anti-fascist - is also a fascist? Or does the term have a specific meaning in Sweden?

Yes. It refers to violent groups on the left who think that Fascism is best fought by street violence and suspension of civil rights.

	14-01-2005 18:37									#278
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The term "Anti-fascist" does not mean they support democracy. They are the ones organising violent riots, and if they can't find any fascists to fight, they attack the police instead, or smash private property.

Think of it as matter and anti-matter. They are mirrors of each other, and explode if they ever meet.

Edit: LC beat me to it.

	14-01-2005 18:43									#279
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Such tactics wouldn't work in the US, I'm sure. But a broad anti-war coalition that also fights for civil rights of Iraqis as well, is badly needed. People have to stop putting all their hopes in the Democratic Party.

	15-01-2005 11:52									#280
	Re: Here's what I'd do: Put an end to popups!

Been away for a few days due to pc power supply meltdown ... fixed now!

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Since they're just being an ass, you could respond by asking them about the distorted sex ratios brought about by China's One Child Policy and the backwards attitudes they have about women.

Actually, no one has (yet) castigated me over this, however it has come up in neutral situations For example, recently I have been asking classes to discuss what they think were the major Shanghai/China/international news stories of 2004. In more than one class, "US torturing prisoners in Iraq" was mentioned in a completely non-hostile way (you are correct that most of my students know my opinion of Bush & League). This is when I want to crawl into that hole. That the highest levels of US gov't could promote torture is so beyond the pale, it's hard for me to address the issue. It certainly diminishes the US' ability to foster human rights improvements in China, which is very, very unfortunate.

I had the great fortune of recently conducting a three-month series of discussion sessions with a small group of mid-level party officials, including one of China's foremost economists (it's amazing the opportunities you can stumble into just being a foreign teacher here). All of them were in their 30s-40s, well-educated, well-informed, and internationally-travelled. I was surprised and delighted at their openess and candor, especially concerning China's problems. We discussed the sex ratio issue for a couple of hours one evening.

It's a fascinating issue, and I think it may not be as big a problem as it appears at first glance. I would be happy to discuss it in more detail in another thread, if anyone's interested.

As for backwards attitudes about women, I'm sorry to say that I do think this is still a significant issue for many Chinese men, including young men. Last week I had a debate in one of my classes about whether or not it was acceptable for a man to marry a woman of higher education or income. Very few Chinese men (even young guys in Shanghai) would even consider such a marriage. (Western guys looking for intelligent, highly-educated, high-income wives, make your flight reservations... )

On the other hand, coincidentally I just read a Maureen Dowd piece in the NYTimes describing this very same issue in the US, where the same attitude may be more prevalent than I thought among American men.

Another worthy thread topic ...

	15-01-2005 12:04									#281
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon It's become clearer that the Bush adminstration is tending more and more towards fascism. There's a long way to go yet, but the fear-mongering, religious mania, hysteria about liberals, traitors and homosexuals along with the militarism, disdain for facts and tolerance of torture is rather worrying.

Exactly how I feel. It's bitter indeed to be forced to realize that your country is not the shining polestar of freedom you once hoped it was.

I think it is dangerous to dismiss out-of-hand the possibility of fascism's rise in the US. As you pointed out so well, many of the basic ingredients are now in the mix.

I would add two other ingredients:

- single party domination of all three branches of national gov't

- gross, covert manipulation of the media (e.g. fake, staged "interviews" by actors posing as journalists, and "contracted opinion service" by talking head Williams (and who else?), all paid for with tax dollars).

	15-01-2005 12:14									#282
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye It's a fascinating issue, and I think it may not be as big a problem as it appears at first glance.

How so? Feel free to start another thread in response, this thread has increasingly lost my interest since the "Salvador Option" was rejected. However, this looks to be a more entertaining topic.

	15-01-2005 12:37									#283
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DinoDoc, I will try to initiate a thread soon. I will PM you when I do.

---

DanS, did you not recently post that many in your family (including you?) "crossed the aisle" to the Republican Party over the issue of abortion?

If so, how can someone who feels so strongly about kiling a fetus not dismiss out-of-hand the notion of death squads?

	15-01-2005 13:34									#284
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye Exactly how I feel. It's bitter indeed to be forced to realize that your country is not the shining polestar of freedom you once hoped it was.

Tell me about it.

	15-01-2005 14:12									#285
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It does seem to be a contradiction to claim protoplasm is a human being deserving protection but actual living humans do not deserve protection.

I must admite though I am at a loss to explain how to solve the Sunni Arab insurgency in Iraq without breaking a bunch of heads.

	15-01-2005 16:27									#286
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Dan makes a good point. We really don't know what the Pentagon is considering so the author is writing an article either upon his own guess or upon other peoles' guesses. This seems to be a storm which has outpassed reality.

Dan makes a good point? I hinted at this on page 2, and stated it more clearly 2 pages ago, and Dan makes a good point?! bastards.

But as I also said, the mere fact it took 9 pages for this to be brought shows what both the left AND the right have come to expect as normal for the current admin. In the past the possibility that this is merely conjecture would've been trotted out immediately. That alone says a lot.

	15-01-2005 16:31									#287
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Now we only need someone to tell us why that's a good thing.

	16-01-2005 06:46									#288
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quote: DanS, did you not recently post that many in your family (including you?) "crossed the aisle" to the Republican Party over the issue of abortion?

Yes, that was the wedge issue for them. However, they're all against euthanasia and the death penalty as well. They have always discussed the relative magnitude of the problems that each position addresses in deciding who to vote for.