12-01-2005 13:38									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I think Cultural Revolution was a mistake, and so was the Great Leap Forward.

	12-01-2005 13:39									#182
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Mistake(s)? That's a gentle way to put it.

	12-01-2005 13:40									#183
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How big of mistakes? Should the regime(s) be toppled?

	12-01-2005 13:42									#184
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Should their heirs be free to run maneuvers in Tiananmen?

	12-01-2005 17:01									#185
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Considering ... death squads?????

quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I am really disgusted and ashamed. Every thing this great nation is SUPPOSED to stand for, we are turning our backs on.

I am also profoundly disgusted and, yes, ashamed. Add alarmed and horrified over what is happening to my homeland, now so far away.

Whenever a Chinese person asks me about Americans torturing prisoners, I just want to dig a hole and crawl in.

This can't be the same nation I left just four years ago.

The other day the dam which had held since the election finally broke, and I cried over my keyboard, cried for my USA.

One of my best friends back home just wrote me "You are lucky to be living abroad right now, it will save you the trouble of fleeing."

	12-01-2005 19:11									#186
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NYE,

The argument you made to me is a justification for every two-bit thug who has ever tyrannized a nation. I take it, then, that you're ok with removing Saddam (who was once "our SOB") and replacing him with a new "our SOB?" Because this is the road we're on.

There were two justifications for the Iraq war to sell it to the American people:

1) WMD/National Security. This was spiced up by alluding to cooperation between Saddam & Al Quaida. This has been decisively disproved on both fronts. No WMD. No AQ link... until after the invasion, anyway.

2) "Freedom" - toppling a nasty dictator and replacing him with at least a semi-functional democracy.

And now we learn that our leadership is seriously considering training death squads and the like to put down the insurgency. Yep, clearly that will spread freedom and democracy.

"They make a desolation, and call it peace." The Romans were big on collective punishment.

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 12-01-2005 at 21:03

	12-01-2005 21:01									#187
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I guess the question before DanS and NYE (now that he and Ted have quit blathering) is, in their opinion, is it okay to have an SOB in charge as long as he's our SOB?

A simple yes or no will suffice for starters. Then you can clarify.

	12-01-2005 21:06									#188
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I would prefer to have the minority persecuted than the majority persecuted. In fact, I would prefer that nobody is persecuted. However, I wonder whether that is feasible in the face of the minority fighting for much more than its fair share of power.

Last edited by DanS on 12-01-2005 at 21:11

	12-01-2005 22:07									#189
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Absolutely. We must take this option. This is the best thing ever thought up, and I'm pleased the Pentagon is considering it.

Sometimes you really strain credulity.

	12-01-2005 22:09									#190
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nm

Last edited by Kuciwalker on 12-01-2005 at 22:19

	12-01-2005 22:14									#191
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Naw, changing the road signs to direct you all to Churchill and letting the polar bears have you would most likely work.

Wouldn't work, they have the little GPS map thingies now

	12-01-2005 22:17									#192
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither The only things of consequence that you would have burned were a whore house and a powder house, both made of wood. In your case, we are what makes the White House white.

Ah, no, THAT is certainly England's accomplishment.

	12-01-2005 22:19									#193
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I think Cultural Revolution was a mistake, and so was the Great Leap Forward.

quote: Clearly, it is possible that some local officials take it upon themselves to do such a thing, but this is not the overall policy.

	13-01-2005 01:09									#194
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So how seriously is the administration considering this, anyway? "Intensively debating" and "one proposal" doesn't sound like much to me. This whole thread could have been for nothing.

Then again, it shows what both sides have come to expect as normal from Bush & co.

	13-01-2005 06:12									#195
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quote: Originally posted by Theben I guess the question before DanS and NYE (now that he and Ted have quit blathering) is, in their opinion, is it okay to have an SOB in charge as long as he's our SOB? A simple yes or no will suffice for starters. Then you can clarify.

I don't think it matters whose SOB it is. Large parts of Iraq are FUBAR. Whoever wins that election is going to have to head a government that will be faced with impossible choices.

I don't think it would be a good idea for the Americans to instigate 'death squads', but on the other hand I'm not going to be quick to condemn Iraqi authorities for getting rough if it is their choice. There's not gonig to be any nice way to reassert order, IMO, and it's gonna get worse before it gets better.

	13-01-2005 06:30									#196
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye Whenever a Chinese person asks me about Americans torturing prisoners, I just want to dig a hole and crawl in.

Since they're just being an ass, you could respond by asking them about the distorted sex ratios brought about by China's One Child Policy and the backwards attitudes they have about women.

	13-01-2005 08:41									#197
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Attacking the basis of support has been a method of warfare since the mid 19th century. In fact, it was a Yank named Sherman who pioneered it, I think.

I must've misunderstood the thought behind Assyrian deportations.

quote: A civil war is nastier in degree than any other type of war.

Really? Having your country invaded by a foreign power and having the better part of its population exterminated (as happened to the Herero and the Jungars, for instance) is less nasty than a civil war?

	13-01-2005 08:43									#198
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Since they're just being an ass, you could respond by asking them about the distorted sex ratios brought about by China's One Child Policy and the backwards attitudes they have about women.

Their attitudes about women is highly likely to be more progressive than yours.

	13-01-2005 08:46									#199
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I don't think it would be a good idea for the Americans to instigate 'death squads', but on the other hand I'm not going to be quick to condemn Iraqi authorities for getting rough if it is their choice.

But you think overthrowing Saddam is a good thing.

That's an interesting contradiction.

	13-01-2005 08:53									#200
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quote: NYE worte: Mistake(s)? That's a gentle way to put it. How big of mistakes? Should the regime(s) be toppled? Should their heirs be free to run maneuvers in Tiananmen?

No, the regime shouldn't be toppled, and yes, their heirs should be free to run manoeuvres on Tiananmen Squre. Forcing regime change in the PRC spells nuclear war.

	13-01-2005 09:29									#201
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger But you think overthrowing Saddam is a good thing. That's an interesting contradiction.

Considering that Saddam is credited with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths, I'd say whoever wins the election has a bit of a credit to start with.

	13-01-2005 09:31									#202
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Their attitudes about women is highly likely to be more progressive than yours.

See. The typical response is unininformed BS. You too can have fun with "They do it too, Mommy!" trolls.

	13-01-2005 09:34									#203
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist quote: NYE worte: Mistake(s)? That's a gentle way to put it. How big of mistakes? Should the regime(s) be toppled? Should their heirs be free to run maneuvers in Tiananmen? No, the regime shouldn't be toppled, and yes, their heirs should be free to run manoeuvres on Tiananmen Squre. Forcing regime change in the PRC spells nuclear war.

Nice try. Did it occur to you that Chinese citizens themselves could elect to force a change?

	13-01-2005 09:39									#204
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Really? Having your country invaded by a foreign power and having the better part of its population exterminated (as happened to the Herero and the Jungars, for instance) is less nasty than a civil war?

Very good. Have a banana. I should have said 'a civil war is more often nastier in degree than any other type of war.'

	13-01-2005 10:35									#205
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Nice try. Did it occur to you that Chinese citizens themselves could elect to force a change?

No.

	13-01-2005 11:37									#206
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The tanks stopped. It's a start.

	13-01-2005 12:03									#207
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quote: This whole thread could have been for nothing.

Ya think?

	13-01-2005 12:57									#208
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc See. The typical response is unininformed BS. You too can have fun with "They do it too, Mommy!" trolls.

Own goal.

How much do you know about the attitude of mindseye's friends and students towards women?

	13-01-2005 12:59									#209
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Considering that Saddam is credited with hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths, I'd say whoever wins the election has a bit of a credit to start with.

With the help of death squads?

laffo laffo laffo...

	13-01-2005 13:02									#210
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How do you suggest order be restored? Invite people to tea? 'Death squads' is a dramatic term, and I hope they don't do it, but it isn't your or my country, and it isn't our neighbours being blown up as they que up for jobs.