12-01-2005 10:24									#91
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I was going to ask you about movies...I assume I could find these in English. If I can get both, I'll watch them in chronological order - Winter War then Tuntematon Sotilas.

	12-01-2005 10:31									#92
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Yeah. But just remember they're not super high budget movies and the other one is pretty old.. so don't expect saving private ryan . But still, they're pretty good if you're into those sort of movies.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098437...G1sPTF8bm09b24_;fc=1;ft=21;fm=1
that's winter war.. pretty high ratings.. 7.7

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048752/? fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj0
wfHE9dHVudGVtYXRvbiBzb3RpbGFzfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__[
/url];fc=1;ft=2;fm=1
7.6 ratings..

So pretty well rated films. But just don't expect Hollywood type of big budget.

Both are pretty stupid, because they're impossible to .. do subtitles to it. It's just impossible. Just think that every sentence is the most nasty swearing you've ever heard and that's what it's really saying. There's no damns or oh boys in it. It's the f and the c word most of the times. Even the old one is nasty .

	12-01-2005 10:33									#93
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But in case you're interested in historical facts, facts of battles, then these are not the most informative ones, even though they have little backround info.. but very little. They kind of expect you to know the area rather well already watching this movie.

There are newer movies also made.. but I'm not recomminding them as these are 'more important'. But they're more 'Hollywood' as in they care more about the cinematic things. But in case you truly like these, then I shall give you more movies, which are more 'modern'.

	12-01-2005 10:35									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel quote: Azazel, or they could have choose to die if Stalin had had his ways. Stalin had his ways in Russia, and most people have survived his terrible reign. Had Hitler won, The disaster would have been ten-fold, and would spell a catastrophy for the entire world, and of course, them as well.

Actually, there are many who claim that Stalin was worse than Hitler, and that many more failed to survive him and Lenin than who went down under Hitler. I know you don't like it, but there it is.

	12-01-2005 10:38									#95
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Well, I've read enough to at least have a working knowledge of the history.

I like old war movies...I got hooked long ago watching the TV series "Combat" with Vic Morrow. The stories of how the squad dealt the war and tried to survive is the best part of the show. It's not all Rambo crap...those war movies suck. Not realistic all.

I'm all for realism, so I'm going to see if i can find these movies you are talking about.

I'm sure my wife won't appreciate this. She will want to watch some sensitive movie or some crap like that...and I'll be like "No, we are watching a bunch of guys run around and shooting and burning stuff , etc. etc. It will be cool.

She will not agree, but tough...that's what's happening.

	12-01-2005 10:46									#96
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Yeah well these should suit you then. It has no romance at all in them. Winter War is over 3 hours, lots of combat. Mostly just in trenches.. but it's good in a way that it's different type of war movie.. no one is the hero who never dies. They're just .. normal dudes. Scared shitless. Tired. Hungry. Dirty. So there's no Tom Cruise in it, that's for sure.

The battle scenes in Tuntematon Sotilas, well it is made in the 50s so it's not the Rambo movie, but .. it has mostly just dialogue in it. But it's great movie, if you can understand it. But watching that you have to be careful, because well, it's a difficult to understand, the dialogues. I don't know how they have translated them. But what is interesting, it was made right after the war, and most actors were actually in the war. And they are stilla ctors in todays soap operas..

But I'm quite sure you would like at least other one of them, depending your taste. I'mquite sure you like at least one yes. They both have same themes though, it concentrates on the groups dynamics and fears and stuff. It doesn't have the big officers winnign a single important battle. More like following a group of fellows throughout the wars, and they get beaten down too.

	12-01-2005 11:41									#97
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The thing I would like to know is, why would Russia risk a world war to attack the finns? That would be insane for Russia.

	12-01-2005 11:51									#98
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And just WTF could Europe do about it? How inclined would the US be to fight another war for France?

Are you aware that there are two nuclear powers in the EU, and that most European armies are still in the mindet of fighting a defensive war against the Rooskies?

In the time of the USSR and the Warsaw pact, the Soviet invasion was extremely scary for Europe. But today, with such a weakened military, Russia is certainly not the invincible foe we believed it to be.

	12-01-2005 11:52									#99
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There's no risk if you do it properly. Basically making it seem justified. Then no one else will risk intervention. This is just common sense, even though we'd like to think otherwise. But why.. imperialism, old glory, to set the record straight .. And of course to prepare for the coming US invasion, they need our area for that. Otherwise US will get our area, and they can'h andle it. Our region is one of the most important in case of full blown US vs Russia war, adn both want it, by force. I don't know.. maybe some Germans comes and saves us then.

So, we need masterblasters. Quickly!

	12-01-2005 11:59									#100
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I'm too lazy to read Pekkas tome. I'm just hoping that hes not actualy implying Russia would attack Finland right now

	12-01-2005 12:03									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Are you aware that there are two nuclear powers in the EU, and that most European armies are still in the mindet of fighting a defensive war against the Rooskies? In the time of the USSR and the Warsaw pact, the Soviet invasion was extremely scary for Europe. But today, with such a weakened military, Russia is certainly not the invincible foe we believed it to be.

Harr harr. The Yanks wouldn't give Britain the launch codes over Finland, and France could be bought off with a load of chocolate!

Are you seriously suggesting that mighty France would put their... 3 warheads up against total obliteration of everything that ever had a trace of a french accent?

Shirly, you jest!

As far as the Russian Army not being it's former self, you are most likely correct. However, European armies were never a shadow of the shadow that the Russians are now.

You'd get your butts handed to you in either a nuclear of conventional sense. Best get used to it, or seriously step up your military spending.

	12-01-2005 12:06									#102
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Tass, they are baby eaters. You never know. Better be cool yes........

	12-01-2005 12:09									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Pekka Tass, they are baby eaters. You never know. Better be cool yes........

We still have plenty of population to go through before we need Finland to resupply

	12-01-2005 12:13									#104
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Yes and our babies are on a diet too so they don't look too attarctive to your monsterous mouths.

	12-01-2005 12:14									#105
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Harr harr. The Yanks wouldn't give Britain the launch codes over Finland, and France could be bought off with a load of chocolate! Are you seriously suggesting that mighty France would put their... 3 warheads up against total obliteration of everything that ever had a trace of a french accent?

We want nuclear destruction about as much as the Russians. This whole "balance of terror" thingy that even prevents India and Pakistan from fighting with each other, despite their mutual inability of completely obliterate the other.

quote: As far as the Russian Army not being it's former self, you are most likely correct. However, European armies were never a shadow of the shadow that the Russians are now.

France and Germany alone spend as much as Russia on their militaries. You should update your post-WW2 preconceptions, you know.

	12-01-2005 12:28									#106
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Haha, as if the french arsenal mattered a jot in the calculations of the Russians. I'd put money on the ABM system they buuilt in the 60's to protect Moscow. Here's a hint, outside of the US and Russia, nobody has a big enough shlong to put MAD on the table, because only they can back it up.

Weelllllll, good for France and Germany. Do you have fields and fields of retired T80s to reactivate? Do youy have boomers cruising off the Russian coast? Do you have airforces that could survive the first 60 minutes of combat?

BTW, when do the French withdraw again so they don't risk breaking a nail, like they did from NATO?

	12-01-2005 12:32									#107
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither BTW, when do the French withdraw again so they don't risk breaking a nail, like they did from NATO?

Are you aware we alway stayed in the Atlantic Alliance and only left from the integrated command? Are you aware we made very clear we were on the American side (and not in some state of neutrality) during the Cuba crisis, when the world feared ocmplete destruction?

My, your ignorance is even more impressive than your trolling

	12-01-2005 12:41									#108
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I'm aware that what France payed lip service to meant ****. It meant your troops weren't in Germany, and wouldn't have been where they needed to be to win that war, unlike everyone else's. By all means, pat yourselves on the back for staying home.

French support during the Cuban missile crisis, although something I've seen more than one French apologist appeal to, meant about as much as a good hork into the wind. In case you hadn't noticed, your support, or lack of it, was irrelevent.

	12-01-2005 12:57									#109
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither In case you hadn't noticed, your support, or lack of it, was irrelevent.

In case you don't see that, it meant we refused to try escaping the imminent nuclear holocaust. That's quite relevant to us, and to the "French are cowards" meme.

But I think you'll continue to dismiss things that don't say "the French are cowards that constantly abandon their allies". Strange, I would have expected such behaviour from an American, but you seem to be the only Polytubbie to be so 2003.

	12-01-2005 13:05									#110
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Actually, Spiff, your trying to escape the consequences of the CMC would have been irrelevant too. That is why French protests of support for the Yanks, in that one instant, are so ****ing funny. You were in support of Kennedy blowing up the world if he got pissed off enough. Very good, so were the rest of us because we didn't have a ****ing choice.

As for knowing about how good an ally the French make, you came to the wrong place buddyvous. You see, I am a Canadian, and it was a president of your sweet republic who breathed life into the movement that came very close to breaking my country up. Ever since then, the French govt has never apologised. In contrast, they encourage the Quebecois any chance they get. Thanks, ally!

The French make a very fine ally, NOT. So don't give me no hurt puppy dog eyes about what French friendship means. I am well aquainted with the dagger in the back.

	12-01-2005 13:13									#111
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Let's ask the Poles or the Cezchs how good an ally the French army makes. Maybe the Finns would learn their place from that.

	12-01-2005 13:16									#112
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In essence: Every nation has supported a nationalist movement in another nation or tacitly or directly betrayed an alliance. Therefore, lock yourself up in your house and trust noone.

	12-01-2005 13:19									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar In essence: Every nation has supported a nationalist movement in another nation or tacitly or directly betrayed an alliance. Therefore, lock yourself up in your house and trust noone.

You forgot to mention those allies who hnored their alliance but who were militarily unable to help (I'm thinking of the French alliance with Poland, which proved as useful and decisive as the British alliance )

	12-01-2005 13:22									#114
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Why, this person, 54 years ago when they were a child, betrayed a friend and told a secret....We should NEVER trust them again! OMG Teh ParanoIA!!!11

	12-01-2005 13:27									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You forgot to mention those allies who hnored their alliance but who were militarily unable to help (I'm thinking of the French alliance with Poland, which proved as useful and decisive as the British alliance )

I note you have nothing to say about the situation in Quebec. That's good, because your nation has nothing but shame in the matter. Find the nearest rug, and try to sweep it under.

As for the Poles, who had an army on the ground and adjacent to Germany? If you say Britain I think you are geographically challenged. Oh, and no, the Poles did not go to war on the say so of the largely nonexistant British army. they fought because they thought the French would actually do something. Their loss.

Much like the Czechs gave up without a fight, largely because the French actually admitted they didn't have the balls to back their ally.

	12-01-2005 13:30									#116
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It's about time that Mother Russia reclaims her renegade province.

	12-01-2005 15:02									#117
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quote: Originally posted by monkspider It's about time that Mother Russia reclaims her renegade province.

Alaska?

	12-01-2005 18:27									#118
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Wow! So Russia's going to annex Finland? Well, it's been nice knowing you Pekka. I hope they don't keep you in the Gulag too long. Who knows, maybe some day they'll even let you have internet access again.

	12-01-2005 23:46									#119
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don't worry I'll die fighting. Hopefully fighting and not eating my ratios in sudden missile attack. Or hopefully at least my pants on. That's my wish.

	13-01-2005 00:03									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Wow! So Russia's going to annex Finland? Well, it's been nice knowing you Pekka. I hope they don't keep you in the Gulag too long. Who knows, maybe some day they'll even let you have internet access again.

can you imagine what Apolyton will be like when the Russian soldiers sieze Finnish computers?

"Helo! This is vasily. I am from Perm. I have a brand neew gun I want to swap 4 shoes. Is this ebay?

long live putin. the great leader"

It'll be terrible.