13-01-2005 04:28									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse they are in denial so next time a US citizen gets declared an enemy combatant by whoever and tortured for information I suppose that is okay too?

When foreign citizens are beheaded by the US on camera then you can talk about torture.

Until then you can only speculate.

ACK!

	13-01-2005 04:35									#92
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But isn't that the point? One does not stoop to the level of one's opponents if one wants to keep the high moral ground - otherwise what OBL says about the West is true.

	13-01-2005 04:41									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse But isn't that the point? One does not stoop to the level of one's opponents if one wants to keep the high moral ground - otherwise what OBL says about the West is true.

What I find really scary is that the proponents of Gitmo don't realise the irony of what they are supporting.

Perhaps they are the true barbarians by not being able to make that essential moral and ethical connection?

Oh well...

	13-01-2005 04:46									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse But isn't that the point? One does not stoop to the level of one's opponents if one wants to keep the high moral ground - otherwise what OBL says about the West is true.

They haven't stooped to that point, have they?

Don't get me wrong torture is deplorable, but half the people here don't seem to have a problem with what is going on with the other side.

ACK!

	13-01-2005 04:52									#95
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I simply don't buy the claims that torture has occured at Gitmo. I've seen several Guardian reader types claim other wise but never have I see something which could rightly be called torture occuring at Gitmo.

	13-01-2005 05:50									#96
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I'm a Guardian reader type?

	13-01-2005 07:24									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin No. In my mind it is a baseless accusation until hard evidence proves other wise.

What specifically constitutes hard evidence?

	13-01-2005 11:46									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I simply don't buy the claims that torture has occured at Gitmo. I've seen several Guardian reader types claim other wise but never have I see something which could rightly be called torture occuring at Gitmo.

okay, there's no torture at Gitmo, feel better now?

	13-01-2005 14:44									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski They haven't stooped to that point, have they? Don't get me wrong torture is deplorable, but half the people here don't seem to have a problem with what is going on with the other side. ACK!

Benjamin Frankin put it best:
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."

Anyway you misunderstand. We have a problem with what the terrorists do. To some extent though, they are terrorists, we expect them to do evil stuff and obviously want to stop them/prevent them doing further atrocities. We don't accept what they do but we also didn't vote for them. And us protesting what they do isn't going to make any difference.

If our own governments, which we want to stand for democracy, law, and freedom, participate in unacceptable behaviour and act in unacceptable moral ways then that's something we can affect, and we should protest against it.

The phrase is "Two wrongs don't make a right" - just because the terrorists do something really bad doesn't mean we can so something quite bad. We're supposed to be the good guys.

	13-01-2005 14:45									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I simply don't buy the claims that torture has occured at Gitmo. I've seen several Guardian reader types claim other wise but never have I see something which could rightly be called torture occuring at Gitmo.

Probably means we have different definitions of torture.

	13-01-2005 15:46									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I have a feeling at some point many of you will suffer for what is being done in your name - so laugh it up boys. But hopefully I'll be wrong about that.

	13-01-2005 16:08									#102
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The scary part is these torturers, sorry non torturers, return to your society. Who knows what havoc they will do to their fellow Americans in the future?

	13-01-2005 16:11									#103
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EXACTLY

It is wrong on so many levels and I can't believe the pro torture crowd can't even see the pragmatic aspect of it.

"Hey, let's give these guys 1000 reasons to hate us and then return them back to their homes."

	13-01-2005 16:42									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse The scary part is these torturers, sorry non torturers, return to your society. Who knows what havoc they will do to their fellow Americans in the future?

all those wishing to become trolls should take note of this post, because this is the way to do it...

	13-01-2005 17:20									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Theben I don't suppose it's possible to imprison people without the torture, since we don't get much intel from them anyways? Just a thought.

If this turns out to be impossible then I think we have to be very careful about taking prisoners at all.

	14-01-2005 00:48									#106
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quote: Originally posted by C0ckney all those wishing to become trolls should take note of this post, because this is the way to do it...

Thanks - I'm saving up comment on what war damaged Gulf War II veterans might get up to....