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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:30
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Che, what do you want me to teach you? The easiest thing to impart are starting hands. I'm giving you this on the assumption that none of you will be playing against me for serious money (not that I wouldn't want you to learn but that I don't want to tell opponents how I play)
The starting hands in Hold Em (the game which I am by far the most proficient in) come in a number of different categories. I'm assuming you're playing at a full (10 person) table. With less people you loosen your requirements
1) Big pairs (AA and KK). What am I going to tell you that you don't already know? Get as much money into the pot preflop as you can. You want 1 or 2 opponents in there with you. Raise a sizable amount (4X size of BB?) to get rid of the crap hands, but if you raise too much everybody will fold and you will win the blinds alone. Be careful if you have AA and flop comes K-Q-3 or something because youre opponent may have flopped 2 pair. Be very careful if you have KK and an ace comes on the flop because you can easily be beat now. Be very careful if you get 3 cards in the wheelhouse (10 through A) because your opponent may easily have just flopped 2 pair or a straight. In limit raise preflop, raise after the flop, can start just calling after flop if you're afraid of a monster hand.
2) Little pairs (2s through 10s): Drawing hands. Get in for cheap and try to hit a set, unless you're in late position (on the button, say) and everybody else has folded, in which case it's time to try stealing some blinds. In limit same advice applies. Remember that hitting a monster like a set pays off much less in limit, so with 2 raises before you act just throw the little pair away.
3) Frustrating pairs (QQ and JJ): the worst-played hands in Hold Em IMO. Raise with them (similar amount to above; 4X size of BB should be a pretty standard opening bet) but be careful if you get people showing a lot of strength. Assuming you're playing against decent players you're either a slight favourite (AK against QQ or JJ or AQ against JJ) or a big ****ing dog (KK or AA). You aren't going to be able to frighten away mediocre aces in limit, so bet unless you see overs hit. Then it's a judgment call. Bear in mind that people love aces, so if one hits and you have 2 callers on your raise preflop it's almost certain 1 has an ace. You can try one bet. If they both fold then you were lucky and ran into 2 smaller pocket pairs. If one calls or raises you're probably sunk.
4) AK: this deserves a section to itself. The beautiful thing about AK is that it's better than AQ. Even more beautiful is the fact that some players forget this. If you raise a significant amount preflop (which you should have), your opponent calls then an ace hits (but NO Queen or Jack) and your opponent raises you probably have them destroyed. Take them for everything they're worth.
5) other strong aces (A-Q, A-J, A-10 maybe A-9): READ THE SECTION ABOVE. AK BEATS YOUR SORRY ASS. BE CAREFUL. Depending on your position and the actions of the prior players you can raise preflop. If you see big raises and calls or big raises and reraises get your ass out of Dodge. You're beat by AK or KK or AA or some combination thereof. You certainly aren't a big favourite over anybody's hand (barring idiots) so why do you want to play with people who are either coinflips (small pocket pairs being played by idiots) or who have you wrecked (big pocket pairs and AK)
6) Weak aces. (A-2 to A-8 or A-9): never play a weak ace. Never play a weak ace. NEVER PLAY A WEAK ACE. You can either learn this lesson from me or by getting outkickered every time you hit your ace. The exception to this rule is when they're suited and you can sneak into an unraised pot with a lot of callers. Either you hit 2 pair or a flush or a flush draw or you leave. Period. This is a hand for no-limit. For limit your big hands don't pay enough to make this strategy worthwhile.
7) Two in the wheelhouse (K-10 (which is weak), K-J, K-Q, Q-10 (very weak), Q-J, J-10 (not as weak as you think)): you can play them on unraised pots or on small raises. Don't raise with them unless you're trying to steal a blind or something. Very "wait and see". If you hit top pair with them it's a judgment call as to whether or not you have the better kicker. Dangerous, but can pay off well against weaker players who just see that they have top pair and forget about their kickers. It's nice if they're suited but not necessary. Similar play in limit and no limit.
8) Small suited connectors (4-5 to 9-10): J-10 could go in here too as a pair of Jacks with a 10 kicker is not the best hand in the world. Get in on unraised pots with 5 callers and hope to hit a big hand (two pair or 3 of a kind) or a big draw (flush or outside straight). If you don't hit this get out and don't look back. People's bluffs are better than your hand a lot of the time.
9) Everything else: why would you play it? Might as well give me your money now and we'll call it even. I might play a K-9 suited on an unraised pot or even a K-5 suited. But remember that even if you hit your flush (1 in 15 over 5 cards on the board) there is such a thing as an Ace high flush to rape your King high flush. I've been the rapist on a lot of occasions so I should know. I'll play a "suited slightly off connector" like a 6-8 once in a blue moon if the blinds are cheap compared to the stacks and there are no raises (ONLY IN NO LIMIT) because I just might get the chance to bust somebody on a ridiculous hand...
Play these starting hands like this and you are guaranteed to already be better than most people at the lowest level.
Last edited by KrazyHorse on 16-01-2005 at 21:19
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Shi Huangdi
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Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
If anything, I suggest you play in a home game for small amounts of nmoney (money is important; if there's none people don't play at all logically). Look on it as learning. Discuss why you made certain moves with your friends after each hand.
The first thing to learn is about which starting hands to play, the value of kickers and how to calculate pot odds. Just with that you can beat most of the lowest limit tables online.
After that, you start to think about implied odds, bluffing (i.e. how much to do it and where it's appropriate) and how to put people on hands. These are skills valuable in limit games but most valuable in no limit.
Finally you want to start playing mind games with people. DO NOT DO THIS WITH BAD PLAYERS. THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THE GAME ENOUGH FOR THIS **** TO MESS THEM UP. Learn to change gears rapidly and often. Learn to recognise opponents' grand strategy (if they have one) in addition to their style of play. |
Thanks, this and the other post you made seem like excelllent advice. I've already done a little reading online and know about calculating pot odds vs. chances of hitting an out and such.
One more question, though, how do you typically deal with scare cards in low limit when you don't know much about how one person plays? Say for instance you have AA, flop comes up K55, and someone else raises. It could be that someone has a King and thinks they have the top pair, or it could me someone was rediculous and called the hand with Q5. This seems to be one of the big problems people complain about for very low limit poker, that if everybody calls everything and nobody folds, that somebody is likely to flop a big hand.
ALso, how do you typically handle the money transferring aspects of playing online? Is NetTeller very good for handling the money?
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:30
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random poker terminology:
Board: the 5 community cards dealt face up
Flop: the first 3 community cards (round of betting afterwards)
Turn: the 4th community card (round of betting afterwards)
River: the 5th community card (round of betting afterwards)
Hole cards: the two cards dealt face down individually to each player in hold em
Kicker: second card, used to break ties. If I have A-9 in the hole, my opponent has A-J and the board is A-Q-7-5-2 then my best 5 card hand is AAQ97 while my opponent's is AAQJ7. Each has a pair of aces but even though the Queen kicker is the same in both cases his J "second kicker" is better than my 9 "second kicker"
Set: 3 of a kind
Preflop: the round of betting before the flop based solely on 2 hole cards
Nuts: the (an?) unbeatable hand. Say the board comes AA952. If I have AA in the hole I have the nuts (4 aces). However, if I have A-9 in the hole I also have the nuts (aces full of nines); since there's only one ace left the best my opponent could do is to tie me with the exact same hand.
EDIT: more lingo
Button: the dealer button. Cards are dealt clockwise starting with the position immediately clockwise of the dealer button. The dealer button moves 1 position clockwise after each hand.
Blinds: big blind and little blind. Generally BB is twice SB. SB is the player immediately clockwise of dealer button. BB is the next clockwise player. Forced bets before you look at your cards. Similar to an ante except not all players need to put up an equal amount every hand.
Position: where, relative to the dealer button you are. On the round of betting prior to the flop the first to act is immediately clockwise of the BB. He can either call the size of the BB, raise or fold. Assuming the SB stays in, on every subsequent round of betting he is the first to act. Betting always proceeds clockwise from the initial bettor. On every round after the flop, therefore, the man on the dealer button is the last to act (assuming he stays in). The later position you are in the better. You know more about what your opponents have done. It's much harder to bet from early position than it is from later, as you gain information from the way each player acts.
EDIT: still more lingo
flush draw: when you have 4 cards of the same suit with cards cards left to come. NOT 3 CARDS. 3 CARDS TO A FLUSH ON THE FLOP MEANS JACK ****. You are ~1 in 25 to hit your flush from here (aka runner-runner flush). A real flush draw is about 20% on each card, or around 35% over two cards. If you don't understand why it's not actually 40% (2 times 20%) then you should start learning about probabilities.
outside straight draw: when you can make a straight with either of two cards because you have 4 cards in a row. Say you have 6-7 and the flop is 4-5-Q. Either an 8 or a 3 makes you the straight. Similar is a double-gut or double-belly-buster straight when you can make a straight with two cards yet you don't already have 4 in a row. For instance, say you hold 6-7 and the flop comes 3-5-9. Either a 4 or an 8 makes a straight, but they are different straights than the previous ones. The probability on hitting either of these types of straight draws is around 18% on one card or 31% over two cards
inside straight draw aka gutshot straight draw aka belly-buster straight draw: where you can hit a straight with only one card: for instance you hold 6-7 and the flop is 5-9-Q. You need an 8 and an 8 alone. The probability of drawing this on 1 card is around 9% and on two cards around 17%
Last edited by KrazyHorse on 16-01-2005 at 22:52
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Thanks, this and the other post you made seem like excelllent advice. I've already done a little reading online and know about calculating pot odds vs. chances of hitting an out and such.
One more question, though, how do you typically deal with scare cards in low limit when you don't know much about how one person plays? Say for instance you have AA, flop comes up K55, and someone else raises. It could be that someone has a King and thinks they have the top pair, or it could me someone was rediculous and called the hand with Q5. |
There's no one way to do it. In that situation in strict limit I would definitely reraise and see what my opponent does. By far the most likely situation is that he has a strong king. Don't go crazy though. SOmetimes you have to fold the better hand. Remember also than in strict limit it's possible to call your opponent down and see his hand. Likeliest situation (assuming I act later than he does) is that he will bet, I will raise, he will call. Next card he will check I will bet he will call, unless a Q comes or something and he's hit 2 pair, in which case he might bet. Remember that the 5 might be out there, but that it's probably not if you had very few people seeing the flop. With 8 people in the hand it's impossible to say that none of them has a five. Hell, with 8 people in the hand I'd call a small raise preflop with almost anything.
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:30
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And yes, it is frustrating sometimes to play limit with really bad players. In that case, bide your time. You'll be folding aces a lot, but their lack of understanding of exactly how often they hit will pay you off in the long run.
quote:
This seems to be one of the big problems people complain about for very low limit poker, that if everybody calls everything and nobody folds, that somebody is likely to flop a big hand.
ALso, how do you typically handle the money transferring aspects of playing online? Is NetTeller very good for handling the money? |
I use FirePay. NetTelller doesn't work in MD for some reason. I have never had a problem. It takes a few days for transactions to clear and a few days for them to confirm your identity at the start, but they've given me no trouble with withdrawals through them.
Firepay is currently charging 3.99 for each deposit to Firpay from your regular bank (i've only made 1 such deposit so far; the initial 100$ I put in). Transferring money to and from Firepay via online "merchants" (i.e. gambling websites) is free, as are withdrawals from firepay to your regular bank.
So what I've done is: deposit 100$ to firepay (cost to me 3.99), move that money to pokerroom.com (cost 0$ to me), withdraw money (my winnings) from pokerroom.com to firepay (cost 0$ to me) and then withdraw that money (my winnings) to my bank account (cost 0$ to me).
EDITed to show that I approve of FirePay's service so far, as my original post appears to have been gibberish
Last edited by KrazyHorse on 16-01-2005 at 23:06
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
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Good standard advice, KH. You read Super System, I take it?
However, Doyle suggests not going very fast with AA pre-flop (4x would be ultra-fast, in my book), but rather to wait for people's hands to catch up with yours. Of course, if somebody bets ultra-fast into you, you do as the Romans do in Rome. But what's your rationale in betting AA ultra-fast otherwise?
I get a headache playing on-line poker, so I may not continue playing it. Don't know why I do, but the headache is equally as bad when I'm winning or losing. I've figured out how to be a consistent winner at the lower stake single-table tournaments.
Last edited by DanS on 16-01-2005 at 22:55
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KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Good standard advice, KH. You read Super System, I take it?
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I'm reading it now (got it for Christmas). Much of it I'd already discovered on my own. The starting hand advice is my own, but it mirrors Doyle's in many places.
quote:
However, Doyle suggests not going all-in with AA pre-flop, but rather to wait for people's hands to catch up with yours. Of course, if somebody bets ultra-fast into you, you do as the Romans do in Rome. But what's your rationale in betting AA ultra-fast otherwise? |
Not betting ultrafast. But especially if I'm in late position and there are 4 calls already I don't see why I shouldn't bet a significant amount. Otherwise you're just begging people to hit something stupid. In early position or with very few callers I might bet slightly less in order to entice a call from a marginal hand. But not betting at all at a full table is just plain stupid IMO. Slow playing is one thing. Overly slowplaying is the worst thing you can do with aces.
quote:
I get a headache playing on-line poker, so I'm not going to continue playing it. Don't know why I do, but the headache is equally as bad when I'm winning or losing. I've figured out how to be a consistent winner at the lower stake single-table tournaments. |
Good for you. 
I'm a consistent winner at everything up to the 50+4 single table tournaments (top prize 250$ isn't so bad...). I believe that I can beat the 100+8 tables too from what I've seen. Will be cautious in stepping up to them. That's a lot of money, but the payoff is also larger. Am only playing 50+4 and 30+3 right now, except when a 100+8 shows up or when there's no action at anything bigger than 20+2. I find the 10+1 and 5+1 (especially) tables ridiculous and get too frustrated playing them.
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15-01-2005 17:54
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