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Alex is offline Alex
Emperor
Brasil
Mar 1999
time: 02:30
  Old Post 19-01-2005 20:31 Visit Alex's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone


3- No I just grow tired of hearing all the propaganda spewed out by almost all news media that brainwashes the little guppies into believing that simply because the US is a superpower they are evil. That the intentions of the US are always suspect and they hide ulterior motives.
Every policy should be apposed because it is US policy.



You are being naive if you think that the "intentions" of the US government were to promote "freedom" and "democracy" in the Middle East...

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 19-01-2005 20:48
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
3- [...] That the intentions of the US are always suspect and they hide ulterior motives.

Could you tell me of any country whose intentions are NOT always suspect?

beingofone is offline beingofone
Warlord
U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:30
  Old Post 19-01-2005 20:51 Visit beingofone's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex


You are being naive if you think that the "intentions" of the US government were to promote "freedom" and "democracy" in the Middle East...


I am not saying the US interests are totally altruistic. Of course greed is a factor. I am just saying the US is not the evil empire that desires world domination like it has been painted.
And you are being naive if you think the backlash by the opposition is to secure the best interests of the people of Iraq and world stability. The other governments could no longer trade with the Hussein government for fat oil contracts.

Oh but they didn`t experience the twin towers did they?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 19-01-2005 20:54
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Sometimes, it is good to have new posters to remind us what the topics looked like back in early 2003

beingofone is offline beingofone
Warlord
U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 10:12 Visit beingofone's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor

Could you tell me of any country whose intentions are NOT always suspect?


No not a single one. That is a very good point.

I would say the US government is no worse than any other government. I believe the US should be held to a higher standard because of the claims made to freedom and justice and they do wield an incredible amount of power.

The point is they have been more honorable then most. So if you want to bash governments then start with your own.


quote:
Sometimes, it is good to have new posters to remind us what the topics looked like back in early 2003


Oh did you know someone in the twin towers like I did?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 10:23
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
No not a single one. That is a very good point.

I would say the US government is no worse than any other government. I believe the US should be held to a higher standard because of the claims made to freedom and justice and they do wield an incredible amount of power.

The point is they have been more honorable then most. So if you want to bash governments then start with your own.

Don't worry, I do.
But there is a reason why the US is bashed, rather than, say, Vanuatu. The US is the world's hyperpower right now. The decisions taken by the US can affect the whole world, so it's pretty normal we're interested about it, and that we worry about it.
The day China becomes the top dog, be assured that there will be many worries about China's international power (especially since China is likely to have a worse behaviour than the US). And the average Chinese will see it as "China bashing".

quote:
Oh did you know someone in the twin towers like I did?

Nope, but thanks for furthering my point. Here is what the average pro-Bush American did in early 2003 here:
1. Ridicule the French. It has nothing to do with the topic, but it always feel good
2. Explain that the US is vulnerable, as shown by Sept. 11, and that's why Saddam, that great threat, must be dealt with before killing more Americans. edit: Use emotional appeals to Sept. 11 to make your point.
3. Fling mud at whatever it is that opposed the war in Iraq. The mud doesn't necessarily have to be connected to Iraq or diplomacy in any way.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 10:32
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quote:
1. Ridicule the French. It has nothing to do with the topic, but it always feel good


when in doubt, laugh at the French for losing WWII

beingofone is offline beingofone
Warlord
U.S.A.
Apr 2003
time: 05:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 11:58 Visit beingofone's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
No not a single one. That is a very good point.

I would say the US government is no worse than any other government. I believe the US should be held to a higher standard because of the claims made to freedom and justice and they do wield an incredible amount of power.

The point is they have been more honorable then most. So if you want to bash governments then start with your own.

Don't worry, I do.
But there is a reason why the US is bashed, rather than, say, Vanuatu. The US is the world's hyperpower right now. The decisions taken by the US can affect the whole world, so it's pretty normal we're interested about it, and that we worry about it.
The day China becomes the top dog, be assured that there will be many worries about China's international power (especially since China is likely to have a worse behaviour than the US). And the average Chinese will see it as "China bashing".

quote:
Oh did you know someone in the twin towers like I did?

Nope, but thanks for furthering my point. Here is what the average pro-Bush American did in early 2003 here:
1. Ridicule the French. It has nothing to do with the topic, but it always feel good
2. Explain that the US is vulnerable, as shown by Sept. 11, and that's why Saddam, that great threat, must be dealt with before killing more Americans. edit: Use emotional appeals to Sept. 11 to make your point.
3. Fling mud at whatever it is that opposed the war in Iraq. The mud doesn't necessarily have to be connected to Iraq or diplomacy in any way.


If you are saying the United States should be held to a much higher standard then the rest of the world I agree with you.

The rest of your post is just rabbit trails.

Do you believe we were attacked Sept. 11th ? Was it reality or imagination?

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 12:18 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by child of Thor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4185205.stm - its all in black+white, so dont act too surprised. Your just going to have to accept that you are no longer on the side of Luke Skywalker and Ben Kenobi - Darth Vader and storm Troopers are what you've become


I read the article you linked to, and it simply added another dab of paint to the human mosaic I've been putting together since adulthood. The mosaic is mostly dark, evil, with maybe a few grays thrown in to break up the monotony. On the periphery, though, there are a few lighter colors; oranges, golds, blues ... that sort of stuff.

It's all that keeps my faith in humanity alive. And thank God for that because, right now, I have rather negative feelings toward most of the Western and Northern hemispheres of this world.

Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 12:22 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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^^^To clarify:

1. I'd like to rip the head off anyone who thinks Bush is good for America.

2. I'd like to rip the head off anyone who thinks America is nothing more than some evil empire.

3. Unfortunately, that'd leave most of humanity headless, which wouldn't get us anywhere. So I'm going to just sit back and stew for four more years and look in the nooks and crannies of the human home for a few more dabs of blue and gold paint.

Gatekeeper

(It's the head cold speaking, really.)

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 12:32
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
Do you believe we were attacked Sept. 11th ? Was it reality or imagination?


How is that related to this topic?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 12:37
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
I would say the US government is no worse than any other government. I believe the US should be held to a higher standard because of the claims made to freedom and justice and they do wield an incredible amount of power.

The point is they have been more honorable then most.


Did you miss all those wars, invasions, covert interventions, and assorted other nasty operations that was carried out by the US of A after WWII?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 12:56
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
If you are saying the United States should be held to a much higher standard then the rest of the world I agree with you.

That's not what I said. I said it was normal that the US was under a closer scrutiny than any other country in the world, considering the US is the hyperpower.

quote:
Do you believe we were attacked Sept. 11th ? Was it reality or imagination?

I must have missed something, but how does it relate to the point I was making? (specifically: that your debating style is reminiscent of what we saw here in early 2003).

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 13:07
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You mean he hasn't been beat down yet?

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 14:01 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
While I find the news sad, I'm not too much appaled by it. Babylon has been destroyed plenty of times. It's very likely that almost all of its tresures and of its historical hints have been lost to destruction and pillage; the archeologists of today have but traces of what Babylon could have offered if it hadn't been repeatedly destroyed. I don't think the American damage on Babylon will significantly raise the humongous losses the city has already experienced.

What saddens me is not that a military force is further damaging a world heritage site. What really saddens me is that I thought we, in the developed countries, evolved to the point of really valuing our heritage, and really understanding the importance of keeping it for future generations. It's really sad to see we continue not to care about it


I was thinking about responding to some of the bunch of moronic imbeciles who have posted in this thread, but this post seems docile and to the point.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 14:03
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BTW MZ, how did you manage to sneak attack Lego? I thought our boats saw everything around our shores at a one-turn range?

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 14:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Did you miss all those wars, invasions, covert interventions, and assorted other nasty operations that was carried out by the US of A after WWII?


And yet added all together the total amount of death, destruction and agony they caused is tiny compared to what Mao and his cohorts did to China alone in a few short years.

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 14:43 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
BTW MZ, how did you manage to sneak attack Lego? I thought our boats saw everything around our shores at a one-turn range?


Carriers

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 14:47
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Damn. I hadn't thought of that.

molly bloom is offline molly bloom
Prince
Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 17:42
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone


We had an atavistic adventure - trying to save Europe from the well known surefast diplomatic agreement of 1937.
" I believe we shall have peace in our time". - Neville Chamberlain after the agreement signed with Hitler.

1- your grasp of geography is amazing.



Do you perhaps mean the surefast diplomatic Munich Agreement of 1938?

A useful link for you:

http://www.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.793


1. Your grasp of history is not perhaps as amazing as Evil's grasp of geography.

Alex is offline Alex
Emperor
Brasil
Mar 1999
time: 02:30
  Old Post 20-01-2005 20:43 Visit Alex's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone

And you are being naive if you think the backlash by the opposition is to secure the best interests of the people of Iraq and world stability. The other governments could no longer trade with the Hussein government for fat oil contracts.


Where in this thread have I said that? I'm not naive and I wasn't born yesterday... I know that the "opposition" has a very specific agenda too.

quote:
Originally posted by beingofone

Oh but they didn`t experience the twin towers did they?


As others said, this is totally irrevelant for this discussion.

Heresson is offline Heresson
King
of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 04:45
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I won't read entire thread. I will just inform you that after explenations of Polish defence ministry, Iraqi gouverment backed off its accusations towards Poles in this matter.
The damages were done during military campaign and later during the looting feast,
and the military base is not built in unproper area; this area was used for different purpouses under Saddam already.

Evil Knevil is offline Evil Knevil
Prince
St Andrews, Scotland.
Dec 1999
time: 05:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 06:41 Visit Evil Knevil's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone
Do you believe we were attacked Sept. 11th ? Was it reality or imagination?


Largely imagination, actually. Do you really believe that that a massive coalition of forces is arrayed against America "the last true hope of the world"? Is Iraq part of a vast network of enemies? Is Iran? Is Syria? Is North Korea? What evidence is there that Iraq was linked to the World Trade Center bombings? What evidence is there that Iraq is connected to Al-Q in any sense, even though Al-Q doesn't actually exist as a formal organisation?

Oh, and Molly, my knowledge of both geography and history are both flawless. Timbuktuo is in Mali, and Mahmut II rose to the throne in 1808, following Selim III and followed by Abdul-Mejid in 1839

beingofone is offline beingofone
Warlord
U.S.A.
Apr 2003
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  Old Post 21-01-2005 13:27 Visit beingofone's homepage!
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Urban Ranger

quote:
Did you miss all those wars, invasions, covert interventions, and assorted other nasty operations that was carried out by the US of A after WWII?


You are right and I as an American am ashamed at some of the operations that have been carried out by the US govt.
What I said and meant was that they are not as unstable and dangerous as many other governments that have existed and do exist.

Spiffor

quote:
US was under a closer scrutiny than any other country in the world


I am with you now and I agree.

quote:
but how does it relate to the point I was making?


Kinda like Pearl Harbor related to a discussion of the US entry into WW2. It might be outdated but does it still relate to the subject of WW2?

molly bloom


quote:
Do you perhaps mean the surefast diplomatic Munich Agreement of 1938?


DO`H - At least you can tell I was quoting from memory.
That is 1 for molly bloom and 0 for beingofone.

quote:
Your grasp of history is not perhaps as amazing as Evil's grasp of geography.


Hey no need to gloat

Alex

quote:
Where in this thread have I said that?


Where in this thread did I say what you implied about me?

quote:
I'm not naive


But it is OK to call me naive huh?

quote:
As others said, this is totally irrevelant for this discussion.


Just saying something that you don`t like is irrelevant doesn`t make it so. It means you don`t like.

Heresson

quote:
The damages were done during military campaign and later during the looting feast


Thank you Heresson - BTW Mamalukes is COOL

Oh no - all you US bashers might have had your balloon popped.

Evil Knevil

quote:
Largely imagination, actually


Like this threads subject according to Heresson.

Unlike the twin towers which was not a figment of your imagination - no matter how much you want it to be.

Oh well there will be more anti- US rhetoric coming your way soon. Don`t forget to jump on the peanut wagon when it passes your way.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 13:38
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Is this a provescy of them end times?

Jon Miller

Heresson is offline Heresson
King
of frogs
Jun 2000
time: 06:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 18:19
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quote:

Thank you Heresson - BTW Mamalukes is COOL


Thanks

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 18:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandman
Protection doesn't equal 'build a base on it'. Unless you're playing Command and Conquer.

This base was of little military value; why else would the Poles decide to hand it over to the Iraqi Culture Ministry? It's obviously not a vital supply depot or anything, which begs the question of why it was built in the first place.


If you are going to station troops in an area then you must build a base. No base=no troops protecting the site=looted site.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 19:41
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quote:
Originally posted by beingofone

Kinda like Pearl Harbor related to a discussion of the US entry into WW2. It might be outdated but does it still relate to the subject of WW2?


9/11 is related to discussions about Afghanistan. This thread is about Iraq. 9/11 is irrelevant to the topic.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:30
  Old Post 21-01-2005 20:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Evil Knevil


Largely imagination, actually. Do you really believe that that a massive coalition of forces is arrayed against America "the last true hope of the world"? Is Iraq part of a vast network of enemies? Is Iran? Is Syria? Is North Korea? What evidence is there that Iraq was linked to the World Trade Center bombings? What evidence is there that Iraq is connected to Al-Q in any sense, even though Al-Q doesn't actually exist as a formal organisation?


Hmm, I think I know which TV program you watched last night on BBC2.

child of Thor is offline child of Thor
Emperor
UK
Jan 2002
time: 05:30
  Old Post 22-01-2005 02:05
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quote:
Originally posted by alva


Hmm, I think I know which TV program you watched last night on BBC2.


Did they show it again?? (looks at link in his sig)
Are they doing all three again as i missed out in videoing the second in the series.........i might have another go then

I blame the Neo-Cons for destroying Babylon

 
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