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MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Jan 1970
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US Troops Destroy Babylon Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Babylon wrecked by war

US-led forces leave a trail of destruction and contamination in architectural site of world importance

Rory McCarthy in Baghdad, and Maev Kennedy
Saturday January 15, 2005
The Guardian

Troops from the US-led force in Iraq have caused widespread damage and severe contamination to the remains of the ancient city of Babylon, according to a damning report released today by the British Museum.

John Curtis, keeper of the museum's Ancient Near East department and an authority on Iraq's many archaeological sites, found "substantial damage" on an investigative visit to Babylon last month.

The ancient city has been used by US and Polish forces as a military depot for the past two years, despite objections from archaeologists.

"This is tantamount to establishing a military camp around the Great Pyramid in Egypt or around Stonehenge in Britain," says the report, which has been seen by the Guardian.

Among the damage found by Mr Curtis, who was invited to Babylon by Iraqi antiquities experts, were cracks and gaps where somebody had tried to gouge out the decorated bricks forming the famous dragons of the Ishtar Gate.

He saw a 2,600-year-old brick pavement crushed by military vehicles, archaeological fragments scattered across the site, and trenches driven into ancient deposits.

Vast amounts of sand and earth, visibly mixed with archaeological fragments, were gouged from the site to fill thousands of sandbags and metal mesh baskets. When this practice was stopped, large quantities of sand and earth were brought in from elsewhere, contaminating the site for future generations of archaeologists.

Mr Curtis called for an international investigation by archaeologists chosen by the Iraqis to record all the damage done by the occupation forces.

Last night the US military defended its operations at the site, but said all earth-moving projects had been stopped and it was considering moving troops away to protect the ruins.

Babylon, a city renowned for its beauty and its splendour 1,000 years before Europe built anything comparable, was chosen as the site for a US military base in April 2003, just after the invasion of Iraq.

Military commanders set up their camp in the heart of one of the world's most important archaeological sites and surrounded the enclosed part of the ancient city. At least 2,000 troops were installed, daily passing iconic relics like the enormous basalt Lion of Babylon sculpture.

In September 2003 the base was passed to a Polish-led force, which held it until today's formal handover of the site to the Iraqi culture ministry.

In his report, Mr Curtis accepted that initially the US military presence helped protect the site from looters. But he described as "regrettable" the decision to set up a base in such an important spot.

He found that large areas of the site had been covered in gravel brought in from outside, compacted and sometimes chemically treated to provide helipads, car parks and accommodation and storage areas. "The status of future information about these areas will therefore be seriously compromised," he said.

Archaeologists were horrified by the confirmation of reports which have been filtering out of Iraq for months.

"Outrage is hardly the word, this is just dreadful," said Lord Redesdale, an archaeologist and head of the all-party parliamentary archaeological group. "These are world sites. Not only is what the American forces are doing damaging the archaeology of Iraq, it's actually damaging the cultural heritage of the whole world."

Tim Schadla Hall, reader in public archaeology at the Institute of Archaeology at University College London, said: "In this case we see an international conflict in which the US has failed to take into account the requirements of the Hague convention ... to protect major archaeological sites - just another convention it seems happy to ignore."

Lieutenant Colonel Steven Boylan, a US military spokes man in Baghdad, said engineering works at the camp were discussed with the head of the Babylon museum. "An archaeologist examined every construction initiative for its impact on historical ruins."

He said plans were being considered to move some of the units in order "to better preserve the Babylon ruins."

"The significance of Babylon is not lost on the coalition," he added. "The site dates back to the time of Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon, but there are very few visible original remains to the untrained eye."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/internati...1391011,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/internati...1391004,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/s...1390973,00.html

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
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all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 01:11
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No, they liberated it. Be rational, man

Patriqvium is offline Patriqvium
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Hysteria Arctica
Dec 1999
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"And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." (Rev. 18:2)

Sandman is offline Sandman
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 01:30
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Can someone explain to me the rationale behind using an ancient, precious city as a military base?

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Apr 1999
time: 00:30
  Old Post 16-01-2005 01:35
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In a situation where previously the Iraqis were led by a brutal maniac who murdered and tortured his own people, and today, and where today it is threatened by a fundamentalist fanatics who would like to set up a Taliban style state in Iraq, considerations over historical artifacts plae when considering everything else that is at stake.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
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Jul 2002
time: 21:30
  Old Post 16-01-2005 01:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandman
Can someone explain to me the rationale behind using an ancient, precious city as a military base?


To prevent looting post-Saddam.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 01:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
In a situation where previously the Iraqis were led by a brutal maniac who murdered and tortured his own people, and today, and where today it is threatened by a fundamentalist fanatics who would like to set up a Taliban style state in Iraq, considerations over historical artifacts plae when considering everything else that is at stake.


Yes, because the US military can't multitask: Either they do whatever the Hell it is they think they're doing currently in Iraq or they protect Babylon from desecration at the hands of their own soldiers.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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they ought to use windows then!

Dauphin is offline Dauphin
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Caught in a tuna net
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 02:04
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Monte Cassino all over again.

germanos is offline germanos
Prince
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Apr 2002
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 02:37
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My God, what a mess

They're only part of an ancient tradition though

FredKarno is offline FredKarno
Settler

Mar 2003
time: 05:30
  Old Post 16-01-2005 03:00
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Babylon was a place of sin, according to the holy bible. Therefore it makes sense to trash what dusty remains of it by the forces of christian goodness. Meanwhile....back home....infinite sin continues......foreaver and ever....BY THE FORCES OF INFINITE GREED. All blessed are all the holy motor-cars. Thus ends the sermon.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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So much for Babylon 1.

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
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Jan 2000
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goddamn ****in g piece of **** americans
i hate those rat bastards


quote:
"The significance of Babylon is not lost on the coalition," he added. "The site dates back to the time of Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon, but there are very few visible original remains to the untrained eye."



that's not the issue ffs... but oh well, people with an untrained eye don't care about this anyway

the_ceebs is offline the_ceebs
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 03:28
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quote:
Can someone explain to me the rationale behind using an ancient, precious city as a military base?


Well perhaps if we put our tinfoil hats on and use



quote:
"And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." (Rev. 18:2)


Then we could say that the administration is trying to bring about those parts of the book of revelations that they can.

techumseh is offline techumseh
King
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High tech Barbarians.

Alex is offline Alex
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Brasil
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"America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between."
- Oscar Wilde

Theben is offline Theben
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 04:38
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Eh, at this point whatever U.S./coalition forces do doesn't phase me.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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Dec 2002
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 04:53
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Give them a break, they were only looking for the whore.


* astonished that none of Poly's other lame jokers had got in first.

Wernazuma III is offline Wernazuma III
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That's news? I know that for quite some time now. And lamentably, it's not only Babylon, but a good number of other archeological sites too.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 04:58
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quote:
"The significance of Babylon is not lost on the coalition," he added. "The site dates back to the time of Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon, but there are very few visible original remains to the untrained eye."

Babylon had been around for about a millennium and a half in the day of Nebuchadnezzar II, which is only of them this guy will have heard of.

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 05:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
In a situation where previously the Iraqis were led by a brutal maniac who murdered and tortured his own people, and today, and where today it is threatened by a fundamentalist fanatics who would like to set up a Taliban style state in Iraq, considerations over historical artifacts plae when considering everything else that is at stake.


Funny you mention Talibans in this thread. One of the most internationally critizised actions by the Talibans was to blow the ancient "infidel" Buddha statues. Damaging Babylon by building a military base on it is on the same level.

Verto is offline Verto

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Mar 2002
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No one gives a **** about this. They just want to ***** at Americans.

Colon is offline Colon
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Pyrodrew is offline Pyrodrew
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 06:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wernazuma III
That's news? I know that for quite some time now. And lamentably, it's not only Babylon, but a good number of other archeological sites too.


And there are over 10,000 archeological sites in Iraq.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 06:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben
Eh, at this point whatever U.S./coalition forces do doesn't phase me.


phase
n.

1. A distinct stage of development: “The American occupation of Japan fell into three successive phases” (Edwin O. Reischauer).
2. A temporary manner, attitude, or pattern of behavior: just a passing phase.
3. An aspect; a part: every phase of the operation.
4. Astronomy. One of the cyclically recurring apparent forms of the moon or a planet.
5. Physics.
1. A particular stage in a periodic process or phenomenon.
2. The fraction of a complete cycle elapsed as measured from a specified reference point and often expressed as an angle.
6. Chemistry.
1. Any of the forms or states, solid, liquid, gas, or plasma, in which matter can exist, depending on temperature and pressure.
2. A discrete homogeneous part of a material system that is mechanically separable from the rest, as is ice from water.
7. Biology. A characteristic form, appearance, or stage of development that occurs in a cycle or that distinguishes some individuals of a group: the white color phase of a weasel; the swarming phase of locusts.


tr.v. phased, phas·ing, phas·es

1. To plan or carry out systematically by phases.
2. To set or regulate so as to be synchronized.

Berzerker is offline Berzerker
Emperor
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:30
  Old Post 16-01-2005 06:21
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quote:
Lieutenant Colonel Steven Boylan, a US military spokes man in Baghdad, said engineering works at the camp were discussed with the head of the Babylon museum. "An archaeologist examined every construction initiative for its impact on historical ruins."


They discussed, they examined, but what did they say? Does ******* everyone in my government lie?

Theben is offline Theben
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Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 06:28
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'faze'. Happy?

Theben is offline Theben
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quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Funny you mention Talibans in this thread. One of the most internationally critizised actions by the Talibans was to blow the ancient "infidel" Buddha statues. Damaging Babylon by building a military base on it is on the same level.


Actually that's what I thought of when I read this.

Sprayber is offline Sprayber

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Oct 2000
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 06:30
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Out of all the things I displeased or upset about what the military has done, this has got to be the very least of my concerns. Kind of sad maybe but it's not enough to cause as much out pouring of emotion that caused Trajanus to fall into an elipetic fit. Perhaps the priorties of people are a bit skewed. Just like the Taliban blowing up the budda statues. It was sad but not really something I'll lose sleep over.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 16-01-2005 06:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Theben
'faze'. Happy?


No.

 
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