16-01-2005 10:58									#61
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I doubt more than 5% of Americans have heard the names Monticello and Mount Vernon (in the context of the houses, not towns )

What's that got to do with anything?

Paul Revere's house is of no historical significance. The two places I mentioned are.

	16-01-2005 11:27									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker What's that got to do with anything? Paul Revere's house is of no historical significance. The two places I mentioned are.

My point was that you picked two places that a very minute portion of the US citizenry care about, much less have heard of.

	16-01-2005 11:32									#63
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These people are completely retarded. Cursed are the mothers who gave birth to these vandals.

As for other Americans, I recommend you not to travel abroad for about 300 years, if you wish to be respected as equal. And then some Americans wonder why people "hate them" or "are just plain anti-american"

	16-01-2005 11:35									#64
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel My point was that you picked two places that a very minute portion of the US citizenry care about, much less have heard of.

So?

	16-01-2005 12:30									#65
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quote: As long as war is regarded as wicked, it will always have its fascination. When it is looked upon as vulgar, it will cease to be popular. -- Oscar Wilde, "Intentions"

Out of the mouths of 'poly.

	16-01-2005 13:08									#66
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If it matters Saddam ruined most of Bablyon in the 1970s. He paved over the original site and created a kind of theme park to attact tourists which was gawdy and looked so fake. I'm sure the tanks and the military base which now occupies the area didn't help and caused further harm but once the tea cup is smashed to bits does it really matter if a few of the bits are crushed further?

	16-01-2005 13:10									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Can someone explain to me the rationale behind using an ancient, precious city as a military base?

My understanding was that people complained that archeological ruins weren't being protected so they built a military base on top of the place. Be careful what you ask for.

	16-01-2005 13:11									#68
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They set up there with the publically expressed purpose of "protecting" the site. This clearly does not sound like "protecting" the site. Highly sloppy of the world's supposedly most advanced and organized military.

	16-01-2005 13:15									#69
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To expect more reveals a lack of actual experience with the military and how it really works.

If you want a painting you get a painter, if you want a suit you get a tailor, but don't expect guys who blow **** up to understand real historical artifacts. To say they are unsuitable for the job is an understatement as there are a lot of dumbasses in uniform.

	16-01-2005 13:19									#70
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Or that they really need to stop over-selling themselves or risk facing charges of false advertising.

	16-01-2005 13:23									#71
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Well, that explains why it took so long for my post to register: You were busy DanS'ing your's.

The commanding officers tell their peons "Touch that building and I break your neck." and that's the end of it. What's so difficult about that?

	16-01-2005 13:27									#72
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Or that they really need to stop over-selling themselves or risk facing charges of false advertising.

Naw, politicians over sell and the military guys just keep on blowing stuff up. They know what they're good at.

	16-01-2005 13:28									#73
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Boys and their toys, eh?

	16-01-2005 13:34									#74
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quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs The commanding officers tell their peons "Touch that building and I break your neck." and that's the end of it. What's so difficult about that?

The problem is there are no actual period buildings left in the ruins of Babylon nor have there been for thousands of years. All that's left are extremely poor concrete reproductions that Saddam did which aren't even close to the originals (for which few if any detailed discriptions remain) and mounds of earth which actually do contain bits and pieces of ancient life. Like I said Saddam had the place bulldozed in the 1970's to create his very tacky Babylonland theme park which never really contained much real scientific work. The tanks and APCs no doubt crush stuff and I'm sure sand bags were filled and fighting positions created so further damage was done.

It's more like crying over tiny things now since the sight had already been bulldozed decades ago.

	16-01-2005 13:39									#75
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I don't accept that. "Well, Saddam already damaged the site, so we shouldn't care about damaging it some more" is a total bullsh*t way of defending behaviour.

Someone really needs to be held accountable for this. It's an absolute disgrace that this was allowed to happen. War is war, but short of a scud missile hitting their base there's no reason further damage should have happened, certainly not at the hands of USAmerican soldiers.

	16-01-2005 13:43									#76
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I doubt anyone is intentionally damaging anything. It comes from daily use and from unskilled laborers who are highered to fill sand bags or hesco barriers. KBR/Halliburtion should have run things better and military commanders at all levels should have cared more but the truth is everyone will only give lip service because they are ordered to give lip service. Unless heads roll no one in the chain of command will do more.

	16-01-2005 13:48									#77
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quote: Among the damage found by Mr Curtis, who was invited to Babylon by Iraqi antiquities experts, were cracks and gaps where somebody had tried to gouge out the decorated bricks forming the famous dragons of the Ishtar Gate.

That is unquestionably 'intentional' behaviour. I'm sure there are other examples, but suffice it to say this was a serious muck-up. Someone in the decision-making cirlces needs to be held accountable. Hell, the base commanders should have shown better judgement given they are commanding officers. They have some limited decision-making authority, don't they?

	16-01-2005 15:39									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin My understanding was that people complained that archeological ruins weren't being protected so they built a military base on top of the place. Be careful what you ask for.

Protection doesn't equal 'build a base on it'. Unless you're playing Command and Conquer.

This base was of little military value; why else would the Poles decide to hand it over to the Iraqi Culture Ministry? It's obviously not a vital supply depot or anything, which begs the question of why it was built in the first place.

	16-01-2005 15:43									#79
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Which Oerdin answered: to protect it.

	16-01-2005 15:51									#80
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I suppose that's institutional stupidity at work.

	16-01-2005 15:52									#81
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It is sad.

I guess since they can't co-opt a dead civilization, the US will destroy it. That way in the distant future they can say they were the first civ on earth, and there will be no evidence to dispute them...

	16-01-2005 15:59									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist I suppose that's institutional stupidity at work.

A pretty common thing, actually.

	16-01-2005 17:14									#83
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Erm... HyperevilSadamwhojustifiesallatrocitiesthatwedo didnt bulldozed babylon ruins since it was an iraqi national symbol for him. In fact there were occidental archeologist studing there during those works and there were no protests as far as i know.

OTOH it is true that he "restored" in a very uncientific manner. For instance he rebuilt some structures using modern cement and bricks. In the same manner as many paints were "restored" during 19th century and that now must be restored again. Current destruction and pillage is much worse, anyway since it implies to miss forever lots of information, in a scale never seen before.



Some baptists considered Sadam as antichrist because the restored babylon. Maybe now they want to make sure that prophecy not comes true...

	16-01-2005 17:41									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I doubt anyone is intentionally damaging anything. It comes from daily use and from unskilled laborers who are highered to fill sand bags or hesco barriers. KBR/Halliburtion should have run things better and military commanders at all levels should have cared more but the truth is everyone will only give lip service because they are ordered to give lip service. Unless heads roll no one in the chain of command will do more.

Incompetence is not an excuse. (even though this administration seems to have different ideas about it)

	17-01-2005 08:31									#85
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Hmmmmm....

I suppose you all are in favor of a stop order on all constuction projects in Europe, forever.

Whatever the damage the American's did, which apparenty was nothing more than covering things up with gravel and sand, it pails in comparison to the damage Archeologists inflict.

At least now future archeologists have something to dig up again

	17-01-2005 08:33									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Colon Incompetence is not an excuse. (even though this administration seems to have different ideas about it)

Of course it is.

	17-01-2005 09:16									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley and yet another layer is added to the heap. At this point they ought to just leave the base there, someday archaeologists will study the occupation of Iraq.

Finally, someone with a little prespective

	17-01-2005 09:18									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Bkeela It's news like this that makes news of US war casualties all the sweeter.

Another person with ****ed up perspectives

	17-01-2005 09:20									#89
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel My point was that you picked two places that a very minute portion of the US citizenry care about, much less have heard of.

No your point was to insult and not and bring anything to the conversation .

	17-01-2005 09:25									#90
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij quote: ...not enough to cause as much out pouring of emotion that caused Trajanus to fall into an elipetic fit. Perhaps the priorties of people are a bit skewed. Just like the Taliban blowing up the budda statues. It was sad but not really something I'll lose sleep over. WTF? Places like these are our heritage. We wouldn't be here if it weren't for them. I have only one word for this... Barbarians Oh, and thank you BD for another wonderful post. Keep it up **

Your so funny