17-01-2005 05:00									#31
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quote: A fact for which you should thank god daily.

But, even if what you say is true (come on, it can't be all bad!), surely you're not saying its a genetic predisposition for making bad music? It must have a cultural or sociological explanation, no? And it would still not explain why asians who grew up here are absent from mainstream north american popular music.

	17-01-2005 05:06									#32
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The 5,6,7,8's are TERRIBLE. There most popular song is a standard blues riff and the only words are Wooo hoooo, oo oo oo.

	17-01-2005 05:08									#33
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Pikku G PWNZ all this silly asian performers.

	17-01-2005 05:40									#34
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cause asians want to be black. there, i said it.

	17-01-2005 05:41									#35
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The Japanese got a fair presence in electronic music actually.

	17-01-2005 05:59									#36
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let me first to make the racist comment.

Asians seem to lack the artistic flair for music.

there I said it. I'm not saying they can't be artists. Their architecture is beautiful. But when it comes to music... What have they contributed? Flutes? bamboo reeds?

enlighten my ingorant ass. I know they probably have done more, but I have not heard of it.

I'm not saying they don't have the ability. It's a matter of culture. some cultures value education, that is why they are smarter. It has nothing to do with genetic differences.

and again- you guess did not mention Loudness (I mentioned them earlier). They actually did have 1 song played on a heavy metal station where I live. Though it sucked

	17-01-2005 06:04									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident there I said it. I'm not saying they can't be artists. Their architecture is beautiful. But when it comes to music... What have they contributed? Flutes? bamboo reeds?

Really, really great drumming. But not exactly the stuff of which radio cuts are made...

	17-01-2005 06:04									#38
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quote: there I said it. I'm not saying they can't be artists. Their architecture is beautiful. But when it comes to music... What have they contributed? Flutes? bamboo reeds?

	17-01-2005 06:37									#39
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William Hung's making a movie in Hong Kong now. His success has only added to his controversy on campus.

	17-01-2005 06:44									#40
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quote: or Mike Shinoda from Linkin Park, he's part asian right?

Actually, Linkin Park has two: Mike Shinoda, and Joseph Han.

	17-01-2005 06:47									#41
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there's also Jin, who got signed to some record label and his a single out titled, "Learn Chinese", along with an album titled, i believe, "...the rest is history".

	17-01-2005 06:54									#42
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quote: let me first to make the racist comment. Asians seem to lack the artistic flair for music. there I said it. I'm not saying they can't be artists. Their architecture is beautiful.

you're just one of many who have echoed that sentiment, which personally, i find somewhat offensive. however, most seem to think that while asians are wonderful at execution, engineering, mechanics of the art, they lack soul. which is why apparently some don't find the asian string prodigies all that spectacular--apparently, they're like machines.

that said, i just think you are ignorant. which you readily admit, so that's a start.

quote: But when it comes to music... What have they contributed? Flutes? bamboo reeds?

taiko drums, poongmul drums, for instance; zithers, and a reliance on the pentatonic scale.

quote: enlighten my ingorant ass. I know they probably have done more, but I have not heard of it.

because it's hard to be exposed to "ethnic" music on regular life, unless you're actively seeking it; and when you're just listening to pop/modern music on the radio, you're generally going to only hear the stuff native to your country's audience.

quote: I'm not saying they don't have the ability. It's a matter of culture. some cultures value education, that is why they are smarter. It has nothing to do with genetic differences.

at least in the case of east asia, court musicians were very highly regarded. furthermore, geishas and kisaeng (contrary to popular belief, they weren't exactly prostitutes/courtesans), alongside aristocratic women, were trained in fine arts--poetry, music, and so on.

	17-01-2005 06:56									#43
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colon's right about the electronic instrument contribution of asians, but if you go by the notion that asians are not particularly talented/inspired when it comes to music...

the creation and engineering of instruments means nothing.

	17-01-2005 07:11									#44
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What about the fabulous duo who sing "Teen Titans"? If that doesnt make you wanna run out and buy the latest top of the japanese pops I dont know what will!

	17-01-2005 07:36									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly And if you've ever heard Asian pop music, you know how thankful you should be that they're far, far away.

Some of that stuff isn't too bad.

	17-01-2005 07:55									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident there I said it. I'm not saying they can't be artists. Their architecture is beautiful. But when it comes to music... What have they contributed? Flutes? bamboo reeds?

I haven't heard much Korean stuff, but I am sure they have their own contributions, including unique styles and unique musical instruments, among other things.

I know the Japanese has some interesting traditional instruments and at least one very recognisable style. There's also Kitaro who's quite big in eletronic music.

As for the Chinese, we have a lot of ethnic group, including the Hans, and they each have their own instruments and style.

As for individuals, there's Vanessa Mae, a violinist with a distinctive syle, Li Yundi, a pianoist who won the Chopin Award, Ma Yoyo, a bass player, Kitaro, among others.

	17-01-2005 08:14									#47
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theres also michelle branch. shes only 1/2 tho i think.

	17-01-2005 08:22									#48
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quote: The Japanese got a fair presence in electronic music actually.

Another fair point. Not only that, but they also build my prize possession: my Roland Jupiter 6.

	17-01-2005 08:22									#49
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there's rachel yamagata, japanese-american chicagoan.

	17-01-2005 08:23									#50
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Yo-Yo Ma!

edit: Whoops! UR just mentioned him.

	17-01-2005 08:28									#51
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James Iha, or was that Jimmy Iha. I forget.

	17-01-2005 08:32									#52
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I never doubted that asians made major contributions to music. But why aren't there asian pop stars in the West? There are none I can think of here in North America.

	17-01-2005 09:15									#53
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That's probably because - for East Asians at least - we aspire to become engineers and scientists a lot more than pop singers.

Locally, most pop artistes are people who flunked school.

	17-01-2005 09:19									#54
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yes but they make more money than engineers and scientists

	17-01-2005 10:34									#55
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quote: As for individuals, there's Vanessa Mae, a violinist with a distinctive syle, Li Yundi, a pianoist who won the Chopin Award, Ma Yoyo, a bass player, Kitaro, among others.

Yoyo Ma, bass player. "You play the cello. Just turn it on it's side and 'chello' it's a bass." I like that movie.

These are all classical music players, which fits another stereotype.

quote: I never doubted that asians made major contributions to music.

Outside of equipment, most of Asia hasn't made major contribution to popular music. Asia's own musical style has yet to reach the mainstream of the world and is so different from modern popular music that they just don't mix well.

But there are a lot of Asian pop bands, rock bands, and even rap groups. A few of them are quite good. But, like others have said, they remain in Asia mostly because they use their native language. Also, since many of them are simply Britney Spears or West Life copies in an oversaturated market, if they ever reach western ears, they are unlikely to impress.

The other question is, why are Britney Spears, West Life, and their ilk so popular in Asia?

	17-01-2005 12:02									#56
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quote: I haven't heard much Korean stuff, but I am sure they have their own contributions, including unique styles and unique musical instruments, among other things.

Well traditional Korean court music is pretty much just a rip-off of the Chinese, folk music is a quite a bit more interesting, mostly precussion of various sorts...

quote: Outside of equipment, most of Asia hasn't made major contribution to popular music. Asia's own musical style has yet to reach the mainstream of the world and is so different from modern popular music that they just don't mix well.

Well the thing is that old-style Asian music (at least in Korea) isn't really a living tradition, a lot of people learn to play it but its mostly just learning old tunes (just like with most older styles of music in the west), there isn't any real growth or change.

Then there's modern Asian pop/rap/rock/whatever in which in just about every single case is COMPLETELY deriviative of Western styles and with virtually NO influence of older Asian styles (again, at least in Korea). Modern Asian music (like that of the modern music of many non-English speaking countries all over the world) tends to be so ridiculously derivative of American/English/etc. styles that Asian artists constantly get sued for cranking out songs that are basically direct translations of English songs (Usher seems to be the target du jour recently). The only real exception seems to be Japan, where music seems to be moving in a lot of much more creative directions, and it'll probably take a decade or three for Korean or Chinese mainstream music to get to the level of Japanese music today.

	17-01-2005 12:48									#57
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Boshko's pretty much nailed it right there- there's a sharp disconnect in Asian music history. It'd be as if Western music went straight from medieval hymns to jazz.

	17-01-2005 13:17									#58
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I think a good part of it is that the North American pop scene prizes vocals with catchy words. Obviously, Asians are at a disadvantage here.

	17-01-2005 13:41									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley Boshko's pretty much nailed it right there- there's a sharp disconnect in Asian music history. It'd be as if Western music went straight from medieval hymns to jazz.

With an interlude of painful sappy ballads.

	17-01-2005 13:59									#60
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When you talk about "asians" in north america you mean east asians, right? Japanese/Chinese/Koreans?

For some reason (and I've honestly tried hard to find anything good whatsoever) east asian pop music is generally quite bland and listless. Sure, they might have interesting middle-class groups, but when it comes to what you traditionally think of as popular music (not folk music or court classical music or whatever) it's completely underwhelming. Which in the case of China could be down to the same reason Soviet pop was so crap and Cambodias lovely music scene died off as soon as the Khmer Rouge took power (ie. dictatorship), but which is more difficult to understand when it comes to Japan and South Korea.

I have a theory on this and perhaps the east asians on this board could help me deicde whether it's true or bollocks. I believe the lack of good pop music is due to the lack of decent-sized working class youth subcultures. The kids are too rich and too respectful of their elders. But that's just a guess.

---

Now, all this would explain why "asians" are absent from US pop charts (no good tradition from home) but not the absensce of Arabs, Indians, Thais, Turks, Indonesians etc. all of whom have vibrant and dynamic local pop traditions.

The US immigrant group I'm most familiar out of these are South Asians, and the answer is that their music is created for just the local communities and distributed through an entirely different set of non-chart-basing channels (this article highlights some of them). They're also in a language different from English. Consequently, there's no mainstream breakthrough for their tracks and the high-profile artists are stars within their own community only.

(The situation in the UK, where South Asians are one of the largest ethnic minorities, is even more absurd. Many Bhangra tracks would, if they were bought and sold through normal record stores, make considerable chart dents, but since they're bought at club nights and web sites like www.asiansounds.com they fail to get noticed unless you specifically go looking for them.)

The situation mirrors that of the Hispanics, largely. Sure, they're a much bigger group and can boast several pop icons but they're still way underrepresented in the mainstream. Unlike African-Americans they can't really make music that's really "theirs" and still make mainstream hits. However, this is changing slowly for the better. Let's hope the same thing happens to the asians.

(Also, consider that African-Americans, up until a few decades ago, were almost in a similar situation. Someone could be a superstar in black communities and not dent the pop charts particularly. Today, anything that tops the R&B chart will have a sizeable pop presence too, but it's not always been that way. And of course, there are still large, alternatively-distributed black subcultures too...)