17-01-2005 22:49									#1
	No Jesus? No Tsunami aid for you! Got spare money?

quote: Villagers furious with Christian Missionaries Samanthapettai, Jan 16 (ANI): Rage and fury has gripped this tsunami-hit tiny Hindu village in India's southern Tamil Nadu after a group of Christian missionaries allegedly refused them aid for not agreeing to follow their religion. Samanthapettai, near the temple town of Madurai, faced near devastation on the December 26 when massive tidal waves wiped it clean of homes and lives. Most of the 200 people here are homeless or displaced , battling to rebuild lives and locating lost family members besides facing risks of epidemic,disease and trauma. Jubilant at seeing the relief trucks loaded with food, clothes and the much-needed medicines the villagers, many of who have not had a square meal in days, were shocked when the nuns asked them to convert before distributing biscuits and water. Heated arguments broke out as the locals forcibly tried to stop the relief trucks from leaving. The missionaries, who rushed into their cars on seeing television reporters and the cameras refusing to comment on the incident and managed to leave the village. Disappointed and shocked into disbelief the hapless villagers still await aid. "Many NGOs (volunteer groups) are extending help to us but there in our village the NGO, which was till now helping us is now asking us to follow the Christian religion. We are staunch followers of Hindu religion and refused their request. And after that these people with their aid materials are leaving the village without distributing that to us," Rajni Kumar, a villager said. The incident is an exception to concerted charity in a catastrophe that has left no one untouched.(ANI)

http://in.news.yahoo.com/050116/139/2j1rp.html

Now there's some class acts.

	17-01-2005 22:53									#2
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quote: The missionaries, who rushed into their cars on seeing television reporters and the cameras refusing to comment on the incident and managed to leave the village.

So they seem to be both bad Christians and cowards.

	17-01-2005 22:54									#3
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While I do think you should not discriminate as to who you help, consider this: These people have traveled from all of the world into a devestated spot to provide help and save lives of at least some of the people over there, and while they are it and they are trying to do what they believe is saving peoples souls from eternal damnation.

You and I, on the other hand, we are sitting on our computers. I don't think I have a just basis for condemning these people.

	17-01-2005 22:58									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi You and I, on the other hand, we are sitting on our computers. I don't think I have a just basis for condemning these people.

I think we have a very good reason to condemn these people. Coercion isn't a very good way to go about saving souls even in the best of times. But to go into a village suffering form such devestation and do such a things is morally repugnant. Thier reactions upon seeing reporters show even they know that.

	17-01-2005 22:58									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi While I do think you should not discriminate as to who you help, consider this: These people have traveled from all of the world into a devestated spot to provide help and save lives of at least some of the people over there, and while they are it and they are trying to do what they believe is saving peoples souls from eternal damnation.

Actually, they travelled all the way out there to try to save the souls of people by using a horrible tragedy as a way to BUY conversion. They are preying on -people's misery and pain, and even worse, they go so far as to dangle the needed reliefe, and upon refusal, decide they will take their bribe money elsewhere.

quote: You and I, on the other hand, we are sitting on our computers. I don't think I have a just basis for condemning these people.

You and I, on the other hand, did not travel to the other side of the world to exploit the misery of others. I think we have more than enough to condemn these people.

	17-01-2005 22:58									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi You and I, on the other hand, we are sitting on our computers. I don't think I have a just basis for condemning these people.

True, but it's still in poor taste for the God-botherers to use the Tsunamu as a recruitment oppertunity.

	17-01-2005 22:59									#7
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Damn it! X post, and in agreement with DD!

	17-01-2005 23:00									#8
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PWND!

	17-01-2005 23:05									#10
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I'm going to laugh my ass off when those Christians get re-incarnated as stinkbugs for their behaviour.

	17-01-2005 23:10									#11
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"I think we have a very good reason to condemn these people. Coercion isn't a very good way to go about saving souls even in the best of times. But to go into a village suffering form such devestation and do such a things is morally repugnant."

I agree that what they are doing is ineffective, rather they ought to show the love of Christiainity by offering relief whether or not they convert, by creating a good example of what a Christian is. But just because they chose a bad and ineffective method doesn't take away from the fact that they are sacrificing alot and traveling a long way from the comforts of home, to do something they feel is good, as well as save the lives of any Christians or people converting to Christianity. And it is not coercion that they are using, they aren't forcing anyone to Convert.

	17-01-2005 23:12									#12
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I'd say withholding aid is a pretty damn forceful way of getting a conversion.

	17-01-2005 23:23									#13
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quote: I agree that what they are doing is ineffective

Not ineffective, but downright offensive and repulsive.

As is your attempted defense on their behalf.

	17-01-2005 23:26									#14
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typical anti-christian attitudes on these boards.

	17-01-2005 23:28									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident typical anti-christian attitudes on these boards.

Provoqued by typical Christian attitudes in missionaries behaviour.

	17-01-2005 23:29									#16
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"I'd say withholding aid is a pretty damn forceful way of getting a conversion."

Coercion means you are using force against them.

"Not ineffective, but downright offensive and repulsive."

And if they are offensive and repulsive for limiting their aid to Christians and people willing to convert, you are moreso offensive and replusive because you haven't traveled there to help anybody.

	17-01-2005 23:31									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi And if they are offensive and repulsive for limiting their aid to Christians and people willing to convert, you are moreso offensive and replusive because you haven't traveled there to help anybody.

No, because I have donated money in aid. There is nothing I can do to help them in person, nor is it practical for me to do so.

These people are repulsive not because they went there to try to help, but because they're leveraging people's death and suffering to try to convert people to Christianity.

Rest assured, if it was practical and viable for me to go there, I would not ask them to reject their Hindu beliefs in favor of being agnostic.

Don't even try that lame defense that they're out there to help and we're not. They're there with an agenda to exploit suffering to spread their religion, and not to genuinely help. There is a huge difference, and one that I'm not surprised a Christian has a hard time seeing the difference of.

For all this talk about Christian values, I see an awful lot of repulsive human behavior...

	17-01-2005 23:32									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident typical anti-christian attitudes on these boards.

If this were a disaster that happened in the USA, and there were a group that would only give aid to people who voted for John Kerry, people on this board would be celebrating that group and donating to them.

	17-01-2005 23:33									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi If this were a disaster that happened in the USA, and there were a group that would only give aid to people who voted for John Kerry, people on this board would be celebrating that group and donating to them.

That's bullshit, and I'm sure you know it.

	17-01-2005 23:37									#20
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I have heard Indonesia is refusing christian aid groups, but there is no article on that.

	17-01-2005 23:38									#21
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"No, because I have donated money in aid. "

Donating money pales in comparison to the sacrifice of going all the way over there and leading an aid mission.

"These people are repulsive not because they went there to try to help, but because they're leveraging people's death and suffering to try to convert people to Christianity."

They are trying to both help and convert at the same time. And in their view, they are doing them a favor by trying to save people from eternal damnation, something to which as missionaries they have dedicated their lives to. And in the process they are trying to deliver aid to some of the people there.

	17-01-2005 23:38									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I have heard Indonesia is refusing christian aid groups, but there is no article on that.

How did you hear about it then?

	17-01-2005 23:40									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi Donating money pales in comparison to the sacrifice of going all the way over there and leading an aid mission.

True, but this obviously isn't an aid mission -- it's a sales opportunity.

quote: They are trying to both help and convert at the same time

No, they are there to convert. They are using potential aid as a tool in doing so.

If they were there to both help and convert, they would offer aid to anyone who needs it, and paint a good picture of the mythical Christian Values... instead we've seen they're nothing more than inhuman opportunistic bastards.

	17-01-2005 23:40									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Asher That's bullshit, and I'm sure you know it.

When the Florida hurricanes hit this past summer, when peoples homes and livelihoods were being destroyed, some posters got their jollies by gleefully pointing out a map that compared the paths of the hurricaes going over counties that in 2000 voted for Bush, and then suggesting the hurricanes were divine retribution.

	17-01-2005 23:40									#25
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Blasphemy is only blasphemy if at first you believe... If I need aide and they told me I had to become christian I'd be "whatever, give me some bread"!!

	17-01-2005 23:42									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi When the Florida hurricanes hit this past summer, when peoples homes and livelihoods were being destroyed, some posters got their jollies by gleefully pointing out a map that compared the paths of the hurricaes going over counties that in 2000 voted for Bush, and then suggesting the hurricanes were divine retribution.

What does that have to do with anything?

Need I post links and anecdotes about all the times Christians use "God' wrath" as an agenda as well?

This has f*ck all to do with selectively giving aid in the result of a disaster...

	17-01-2005 23:43									#27
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They are obviously not Samarians

	17-01-2005 23:44									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi When the Florida hurricanes hit this past summer, when peoples homes and livelihoods were being destroyed, some posters got their jollies by gleefully pointing out a map that compared the paths of the hurricaes going over counties that in 2000 voted for Bush, and then suggesting the hurricanes were divine retribution.

And that has nothing to do with anything.

Lesson in basic logic:

If a person is moraly repugnant, that does not absolve other morally repugnant people from their repugnancy.

I don;t give a **** what you think of anyone here in Poly-that is an irrelevant strawman. The question is, what kind of people are these?

To deny giving aid because of someone's religion is repulsive, no matter how much work you did or did not do in order to discriminate. To attempt to convert people at a time of misery is also morally outrageous.

The people who did this are terrible human biengs, regardless on whether anyone on Poly, including yourself, is a worthy human being either.

Stop defending these scumbags.

	17-01-2005 23:46									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Provoqued by typical Christian attitudes in missionaries behaviour.

This attitude has not been typical in Christian missionaries since the days of Pizarro and Cortez.

Shi's hypothetical would be more on point if, after the disaster in American, Hindus would have shown up here offering aid only to those who denounce Christ and His teachings.

	17-01-2005 23:48									#30
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I think we have a very good reason to condemn these people. Coercion isn't a very good way to go about saving souls even in the best of times. But to go into a village suffering form such devestation and do such a things is morally repugnant. Thier reactions upon seeing reporters show even they know that.

DinoDoc takes a position, and I agree with it.

I cannot recall the last time (if ever) that happened.

-Arrian