21-01-2005 00:03									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's extremely rare for a Windows user to need Firewire, which is why it's usually not a default option. It's available for $30 for those who need it. Firewire is mostly a Mac thing, and also for Digital Video.

Wrong. Most external Harddrives use firewire. Because of this they are considerably cheaper than their USB2 or RJ-45 versions.

Firewire in Macs is a big advantage for most people, believe me.

	21-01-2005 00:05									#32
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius Wrong. Most external Harddrives use firewire. Because of this they are considerably cheaper than their USB2 or RJ-45 versions. Firewire in Macs is a big advantage for most people, believe me.

How many Windows users use external harddrives?

Again, that's mostly popular in Mac circles because most Macs don't have space to add in more harddrives.

If Firewire in Macs is a big advantage for "most people", you're saying "most people" use Firewire...? That's incredibly hard to believe.

Edit: Looking at BestBuy.ca, they offer 7 external harddrives...

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/subcl...164&catid=20238

All 7 of them offer USB 2.0 connections, only 1 has a Firewire connection (in addition to USB 2.0)...

	21-01-2005 00:17									#33
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quote: Wrong. Most external Harddrives use firewire. Because of this they are considerably cheaper than their USB2 or RJ-45 versions. Firewire in Macs is a big advantage for most people, believe me.

And BestBuy.com has 17 external harddrives: http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...requestid=35776

Every single one, again, offers USB 2.0 connections. 7 also offer Firewire, but this is in addition to USB 2.0.

So I call bullshit on your claim...

	21-01-2005 00:37									#34
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I believe a growing number of Windows users are going to use external hard drives, just by looking at the growth of the laptop market

Where I post from external drives using firewire are much more cheaper than the sae ones with firewire/usb2. I'm not familiar with the situation in Canada so I believe things might be little different around there.

I have one 250 GB external firewire HD, unfortunately I have only one firewire port too so I have to wait in agony for the usb2 versions to catch on since I'm planning to buy another 500 GB one. So for people using laptops and living in Europe, who like to carry their external HDs around double firewire ports on a laptop would be a big benefit.

So, when i say "most people" I mean the dramatically growing number of progressive laptop users, a group of people you clearly do not identify with.

	21-01-2005 00:44									#35
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quote: Originally posted by laurentius So, when i say "most people" I mean the dramatically growing number of progressive laptop users, a group of people you clearly do not identify with.

What are "progressive laptop users"?

Do you mean the non-techy laptop users?

I have a 120GB external USB2 for my laptop.

I don't know why it's any different in Europe, but in North America, the vast majority of external harddrives are USB2, and some also have Firewire.

USB2 has far lower latencies, and Firewire has more bandwidth.

Firewire is virtually useless except for those with Digital Video equipment that use Firewire, and that's why it's usually an option, and not standard.

	21-01-2005 01:07									#36
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I checked on the Mac site. You get the mini + keyboard, mouse, an extra 256 MB ram and Applecare for 781$. And that's without the monitor. So it's not really cheaper than an eMac, which comes with a CRT.

	21-01-2005 02:51									#37
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I really like how Apple is suing the website ThinkSecret for revealing the Mac Mini.



( Of course, if Microsoft did that, Mac fanbois would just point to how "evil" Microsoft is for doing that... )

Last edited by Q Cubed on 21-01-2005 at 03:01

	21-01-2005 04:54									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed I really like how Apple is suing the website ThinkSecret for revealing the Mac Mini. ( Of course, if Microsoft did that, Mac fanbois would just point to how "evil" Microsoft is for doing that... )

They also blatantly ran out of business other hardware makers that made MacOS-compatible hardware.

They're the most evil of any "major" computer company I can think of (excluding SCO).

	21-01-2005 06:07									#39
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo I checked on the Mac site. You get the mini + keyboard, mouse, an extra 256 MB ram and Applecare for 781$. And that's without the monitor. So it's not really cheaper than an eMac, which comes with a CRT.

The whole point of the Macworld article is that with the Dell computer you get what you pay for: worthless crap.

With the Mac Mini at least you get something that is functional enough to get things done and lives up to the price tag that's on it.

	21-01-2005 06:09									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy The whole point of the Macworld article is that with the Dell computer you get what you pay for: worthless crap. With the Mac Mini at least you get something that is functional enough to get things done and lives up to the price tag that's on it.

I see you've ignored my posts which pointed out what a stupid article it was, and how flawed it was...

	21-01-2005 07:02									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Asher I see you've ignored my posts which pointed out what a stupid article it was, and how flawed it was...

Smart Apolyton posters put you on ignore and keep you there because they already know well enough that your deception makes your own "opinions" flawed.

	21-01-2005 07:04									#42
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Hey... discuss the topic... NOT THE POSTERS!

	21-01-2005 07:04									#43
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Here's another good opinion on the Mac Mini coming from an editor for the Wall Street Journal: http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20050120.html

	21-01-2005 07:11									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy Smart Apolyton posters put you on ignore and keep you there because they already know well enough that your deception makes your own "opinions" flawed.

If they're flawed, it should make it pretty easy to debunk.

You just ignore it because it's not what you want to hear. You still read my posts anyway, obviously...

Mac Mini isn't a good deal compared to cheap PCs, even from brand names like Dell. It's silly to argue otherwise, which is why it was so easy to debunk the Macworld story.

It's selling point is it's tiny, not that it's cheap for a Mac.

	21-01-2005 07:21									#45
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quote: The whole point of the Macworld article is that with the Dell computer you get what you pay for: worthless crap.

Can't say the guy who wrote the article made a special effort to make a fair assessment. His remark about Windows XP Home was especially ill informed IMO. Most people don't need Windows XP professional.

	21-01-2005 08:50									#46
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The radeon 9200 is junk. I know, I've had one for some time now.

	21-01-2005 12:32									#47
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Amazon's Top-Selling Desktop Computers

	21-01-2005 12:34									#48
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People buy computers from Amazon.com?

The only PCs on the list are things like Sony, Microtel, and eMachines, with a few HP/Compaq thrown in there.

I hope you're not trying to say something with Amazon.com PC sales statistics.

	21-01-2005 12:39									#49
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Wow, that was a quick reply.

You know, Ash, with you on ignore I can very easily pick and choose which posts of yours I want to read and which one's I don't want to read.

	21-01-2005 12:44									#50
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You seem to choose to read each one.

And how can you resist such a sexy man posting such sexy comments.

	21-01-2005 12:54									#51
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At least the article is less idiotic than the one that compares a Mac Mini to a low-end DIY PC.

SP

	21-01-2005 12:59									#52
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Of course as usual Asher overlooks the obvious.

These are entry level computers aimed at people who are not tech savvy and just want to do basic things.

The software bundle on the mini is far superior to that on the Dell for a start. Word Perfect? Jesus....

But that's not what's funny.

To keep the Dell in order you will need to spend money on an antivirus program (a proper one, not one of the free ones) and updates for it.

Add to that the time and money you will waste getting it fixed when the anti-virus software fails to catch the latest menace, and the amount of time over its operational life you will spend ridding it of spyware or getting someone else to do it - remember these computers are meant to appeal to non-techy people.

Add the cost of all that wasted time to the cost of the Dell, compared with the virus and spyware free mac, and I'd say the mac mini comes out far far cheaper.

Even if you only spend 10 minutes a week dealing with security problems, that adds up over 3 or four years. My time is certainly worth more than that.

Time Agathon has spent dealing with viruses and spyware or related activities in the last four years = zero.

How many Dell owners can say that?

	21-01-2005 13:03									#53
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I call massive, crippling ignorance.

SP

	21-01-2005 13:08									#54
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Anyone who inflicts a Windows machine on a regular non-tech person is evil.

	21-01-2005 13:31									#55
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That's funny, it used to be UNIX that was reserved for the technically inclined. Of course, it's all a matter of opinion.

I think that it's a matter of what you're used to. I know plenty of people who prefer MacOS to Windows. Personally, I can't stand MacOS; I find it to be totally counterintuitive. So, the first choice of computer shouldn't really matter to somebody who hasn't used one much before, so long as the person who sets it up installs AVG and Kerio (if it's a Windows machine). If a non-tech person doesn't have any friends to help them (in which case they should really consider becoming a tech person, their lifestyle suits the pursuit), then maybe the Mac Mini would be a good, if expensive, alternative.

SP

	21-01-2005 13:37									#56
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I would buey a mac which is a latopmn

JM

	21-01-2005 13:43									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Mr. Nice Guy The whole point of the Macworld article is that with the Dell computer you get what you pay for: worthless crap. With the Mac Mini at least you get something that is functional enough to get things done and lives up to the price tag that's on it.

Is that the reason why it is outpaced by significant margins by a fully loaded Dell machine that actually includes the monitor? For about the same price also..

After you buy all the things you need for the Mini Mac it probably nears about $800. No longer the $499 budget machine you know about.

The processor in the Mini Mac is crap. That simple. It isn't practical and it doesn't live up to its price tag. The dell on the other hand does. That Dell is by no means a gaming machine, but it certainly does put the Mac Mini out in the cold. The graphics card, the Radeon 9200 with 32MB is incredibly poor. They could of at least picked a Radeon 9200 with more memory on it. That thing won't even stack up against a machine with integrated graphics.

	21-01-2005 13:44									#58
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that is true for most machines though, they don't come with a monitor

Jon miller

	21-01-2005 13:47									#59
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That's not the point, jon. The Dell that was talked about did in fact include a monitor... a 19" CRT or 15" LCD.

	21-01-2005 13:48									#60
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hmm, but how was the rest of the machine

also, even if it is a bit more expensice, you have the apple name going for you

Jon Miller