20-01-2005 00:49									#31
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I would also insulate the soles of the boots with significant rubber sole to minimize conduction heat loss when standing. I would also not recommend lying down or sitting, as the insulation on the back and butt would necessarily be less and the surface area much larger. The heating unit might have difficulty keeping up with the demand if you did that.

	20-01-2005 00:52									#32
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Mars is not a very survivable environment. It's barely less hostile than the moon (only positive mars has over moon is that the minimal martian atmosphere does mediate temperature extremes slightly and cuts down slightly on UV radiation. Plus it's further from sun so radiation in general lower.

	20-01-2005 01:03									#33
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So can a drysuit used for arctic diving be suitable?
http://www.diverescueintl.com/catalog.html

	20-01-2005 01:09									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Pax No moon boots available. Would a wet suit or dry suit be any help? How about a gas mask that filters out CO2?

but they're so nice and warm

	20-01-2005 01:12									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf but they're so nice and warm

I'm sorry Gangerolf. Those moon boots are acceptable.

	20-01-2005 01:14									#36
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Um, why not just wear a damned space suit?

	20-01-2005 01:16									#37
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Because Pax said we couldn't. Course, without some kind of container to keep the breathable air, temperature, and pressure safe, you die. Either you're in a bubble, a vehicle, or a space suit or you don't go until after massive terraforming.

	20-01-2005 01:16									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Um, why not just wear a damned space suit?

1. Cost too much.
2. Too bulky.
3. Not sexy.
4. Over engineered.
5. Not the point of this thread.

	20-01-2005 01:17									#39
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Surface temperature (mean) -55°C (-67°F) Surface temperature (equat. summer day) 27°C (80°F) Surface temperature (polar winter night) -133°C (-207°F) quite clement really

Source?

	20-01-2005 01:18									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Pax 1. Cost too much. 2. Too bulky. 3. Not sexy. 4. Over engineered. 5. Not the point of this thread.

What would you need to surivie on the Moon? No space suit allowed! Mars is too hostile not to be in a space suit, period, end of thread.

	20-01-2005 01:19									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Pax 1. Cost too much. 2. Too bulky. 3. Not sexy. 4. Over engineered. 5. Not the point of this thread.

All of these, except 5, are rendered moot by the fact that the alternative is to build something on your own that will likely ultimately cost just as much, be just as bulky, and just as unsexy as the premade, handy-dandy spacesuit. And what do you mean by 4? How is a spacesuit "overengineered?"

	20-01-2005 01:21									#42
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The question is can we man survive on the most hospitable place outside earth with equipment that is commercially available and pretty much mass produced.

	20-01-2005 01:23									#43
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse To survive on mars for a day I would: 1) Get a battery powered heater and warm clothes 2) Get a bunch of oxygen cylinders and a breathing mask 3) Get a bunch of thick (0.2 cm or so?) rubber or synthetic rubber material and build some sort of airtight tent big enough to hold me. You also need a valve to bleed off waste gases (otherwise the pressure would build up too much) 4) Hope like hell I'd sealed it properly

Gotta love those hamster balls!

	20-01-2005 01:24									#44
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I'd wear a space suit

	20-01-2005 01:25									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Pax The question is can we man survive on the most hospitable place outside earth with equipment that is commercially available and pretty much mass produced.

I gave you your answer at the begining of the thread. Without a space suit, you die.

	20-01-2005 01:25									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Pax The question is can we man survive on the most hospitable place outside earth with equipment that is commercially available and pretty much mass produced.

The only reason one would need to do so would be if one was undertaking a private mission to Mars, not one performed by NASA. If that's the case, considering the cost of going to Mars, whomever undertook such a venture would easily have enough money to buy some spacesuits, even have them made. I just don't fathom there ever being any need to jury-rig a suit from spare parts.

	20-01-2005 01:29									#47
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Why would anyone spend six to eighteen months in space (one-way) for a day-trip to the Red Planet?

	20-01-2005 01:32									#48
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Basically, you'd need a lighter spacesuit; you can cut back on radiation shielding, but that's about it.

Were you thinking of that scene in B5 where they cross a Martian plain in oxygen masks and parkas, by any chance? I think they were assuming some amount of terraforming.

	20-01-2005 01:34									#49
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why would anyone spend six to eighteen months in space (one-way) for a day-trip to the Red Planet?

To see wether or not they could survive on mars in a scuba suit?

	20-01-2005 01:40									#50
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http://history.nasa.gov/spacesuits.pdf

This supports 1-4. Sure Boris, NASA will/would use one of these Space suits but do they have too? What if there were a cheaper alternative that would work just as well for walking on a planet like mars. I'm not saying the suit would be jury-rigged. When you put your underwear on is that jury-rigged. I'm just speculating on whether or not the means to walk on mars is available at a low rate. Every extreme on mars has been overcome on earth by common men using technology that's outdated now. Go to a sports store. We have clothes whose fabric is designed to keep you warm or cold as need be. We have all sorts of gadgets that were not available in 1985 or 1970. The Space tech Nasa uses is in some cases obsolete. My question stands.

	20-01-2005 01:43									#51
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Why would anyone spend six to eighteen months in space (one-way) for a day-trip to the Red Planet?

The same reason I spent 3 months underwater for 2 days in halifax or 3 months underway for 6 hours in St. Thomas.
The question is can you survive on mars for any length of time.

	20-01-2005 01:48									#52
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Someone who doesn't understand highschool science like P and kPa should not bother with Mars travelling

	20-01-2005 01:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Pax The question is can you survive on mars for any length of time.

No.

	20-01-2005 02:04									#54
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara What would you need to surivie on the Moon? No space suit allowed!

An atmosphere.

	20-01-2005 02:11									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie Someone who doesn't understand highschool science like P and kPa should not bother with Mars travelling

Wow. What a slam. I've been out of high school for a bout 16 and a half years son. It's not a question of understanding. That's like me asking you the 3 minute rule of navigation, the 6 rules of DR, How does sonar work, how many staves in a sonar dome? How many elements? What is TMA? How do you do TMA? Just because I know these things does not make me smarter than you. It just means I know these things.

Back to the subject http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/ar...hap15page1.html

	20-01-2005 03:17									#56
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If you are stationed on a sub (I read between the lines that you are), understanding P and kPa is essential. Most subs will be squezed if P gets above 3000 kPa or something.

P is pressure and kPa is the unit it's measured in. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 100 kPa. Every 10 meters you dive in water adds 1 atmosphere = 100 kPa to the pressure. If I recall right, a modern sub can dive to 300 meters where the pressure is 3000 kPa (I know some can dive deeper, just an example).

	20-01-2005 03:42									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie If you are stationed on a sub (I read between the lines that you are), understanding P and kPa is essential.

If you are designing subs, it would be essential. But being stationed on one? I don't think that understanding the terminology used to measure pressure would be essential to keep the hull from collapsing.

	20-01-2005 04:57									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk Basically, you'd need a lighter spacesuit; you can cut back on radiation shielding, but that's about it. Were you thinking of that scene in B5 where they cross a Martian plain in oxygen masks and parkas, by any chance? I think they were assuming some amount of terraforming.

yes they did.

	20-01-2005 05:28									#59
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Just tried it, came up with http://www.kpa.se/, not very relevant In fact the whole page of hits is pretty useless (except the bottom hit) http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...nG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.com/search?q=defi...off&sa=N&tab=iw

To get definitions in Google, try: define kpa

	20-01-2005 05:35									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie If you are stationed on a sub (I read between the lines that you are), understanding P and kPa is essential. Most subs will be squezed if P gets above 3000 kPa or something. P is pressure and kPa is the unit it's measured in. Atmospheric pressure at sea level is 100 kPa. Every 10 meters you dive in water adds 1 atmosphere = 100 kPa to the pressure. If I recall right, a modern sub can dive to 300 meters where the pressure is 3000 kPa (I know some can dive deeper, just an example).

Actually, the things I listed were things that get used everyday on a modern nuclear sub. Of course, we all have to become familiar with dive limits and escape procedures. Still, I was never required to give the formulas concerning pressure. I did have to be able to explain how the nuclear plant works, the ventilation system, the refrigeration system, and etc. Never the formula for pressure at any depth.
Now back to the question.