28-01-2005 09:49									#1
	C3CDG: SoZ Yes or No? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Same rules as other thread, but this time it's just Yes or No - do we allow SoZ. Only 'writein' that I'll officially post is "Yes - but it has to not require any resource".

Snoopy369: Yes
Paddy: No
Beta: No
Aqualung: Yes
Conqueror: No
Scaeva (?):

3 no, 2 yes. Waiting for Team 6. If it's a tie, then I ask everyone to re-vote based on the results of the SGL poll... otherwise I suppose we have to leave it in, as that's the default, unless one of the Yes wants to vote No... (I'm using the "standard civ rules" test for all of the polls that have ties, if it's a meaningful test.)

However, at the moment it's 3:2 No:Yes, so SoZ would be out unless team 6 votes yes (or someone else changes votes.)

Last edited by snoopy369 on 31-01-2005 at 22:21

	28-01-2005 10:52									#2
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Another way of handling the Statue of Zeus is to put an Ivory resource near every team's starting location.

	28-01-2005 11:01									#3
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As is mentioned (sort of) in the resource vote.

	28-01-2005 11:38									#4
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Yes.

Why don't we just turn off SGL's? Then anyone who builds SoZ....as with any wonder....has gone through the necessary pain of sacrificing the production they would otherwise have used on other necessary improvements/units.

[edit: made my vote less confusing]

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 29-01-2005 at 05:18

	28-01-2005 14:14									#5
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confusing vote Aqua,...

Yes to SoZ

Adding to Aqua's comment. SGL's ok, but not for wonder rushing. We're with teams, so I would take that every team has enough righteous people not to break this rule if it was to be implemented.

	28-01-2005 17:29									#6
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No to SoZ.

And I can go with No for using GL's to build wonders. Good rule. More strategy and less luck.

	28-01-2005 17:49									#7
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Disabling the SGL gets always YES vote from me. Its just too much when one player gets 2 SGL in a row from the 2 first techs he researched. (has happened in one PBEM i was involved)

No to SoZ gets also my vote always.

	28-01-2005 17:52									#8
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What's the problem with the Statue? And how to turn it off?

	28-01-2005 18:56									#9
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BigFurryMonster , the problem is that if someone gets an early SGL and happen to have ivory close by, then that person can rush SoZ and proceed to roll over the other guys even before the game reach the middle age.

That's what I did in the ironciver B game


SoZ is a powerful wonder. Building it will make people very nervous and prone to dogpiling.



We don't need to turn it off, with no AI we only need to include 'Thy shault not build SoZ' in the rules.

	28-01-2005 23:12									#10
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No SGLs, Yes to SoX.

	29-01-2005 05:21									#11
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Rubbish! SoZ produces one unit every 5 turns, no more than any other town can. If someone builds the SoZ, you've got about 30 turns before he has enough AC to become dangerous, and if you're smart you'll build enough units to defend against it

If you want to ban Ancient Cavalry, you also need to prevent the Celts from building Gallic Swordsmen (though I realise they're not in this game).

	29-01-2005 06:07									#12
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Disabling SGL wonder rushing, you might as well not have SGLs (or make them into MGLs, capable of building armies). Science Golden Age doesn't work (it's literally broken) and it's not worth it to have the SGL and not be able to do anything. I'll add MGL functionality as part of the SGL poll (new poll btw)...

	29-01-2005 16:22									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Rubbish! SoZ produces one unit every 5 turns, no more than any other town can. If someone builds the SoZ, you've got about 30 turns before he has enough AC to become dangerous, and if you're smart you'll build enough units to defend against it

Mind you that in an early game it means an advantage of an imaginary extra town fully devoted to building the strongest (veteran) units available.
You'll have 30 turns to builld spears who won't be too difficult a target, meanwhile taking the risk to expand, because if you don't you'll be outproduced as well. Mind you that the AC's won't come alone. Moreover, wandering barbs are used to present you a fine army of Elites. Hello Mr. Sitting Duck.
Been there, experienced it and didn't like it.

Still I think a solid alliance should be able to take counter measurements.

@ bongo, you're way more relaxed over the subject now than you were when we announced to tech ally against you. You moved heaven and earth back then and now it seems you agree that that is the only solution forthe others to at least have a chance....
Great to see that the story lives on...

	31-01-2005 21:41									#14
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SoZ - No

	01-02-2005 01:18									#15
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quote: Originally posted by McMeadows @ bongo, you're way more relaxed over the subject now than you were when we announced to tech ally against you. You moved heaven and earth back then and now it seems you agree that that is the only solution forthe others to at least have a chance.... Great to see that the story lives on...

I can afford to be relaxed now don't you think?

To me it was more than anything a question about how to read the rules. After agreeing to such strict rules in the first place, I became very annoyed indeed when you defined yourself away from the 'no embargo pre-nationalism'-rule.

I don't mind playing wearing a straitjacket, but when the other guys start waving at me..



I would probably done the same had the roles been reversed btw. Well, not exactly the same, I would have seen too that the guy with SoZ didn't win
(If that's even possible that is)

	01-02-2005 03:26									#16
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We fought the emabrago definition to the letter. Tech-embargo was ok'ed. In fact, we were too honest on that matter. We were not obliged to inform you on that.

As for making sure he'd not win. I sacrificed myself to get him down, but it didn't matter eventually...

Well played matey

	01-02-2005 15:30									#17
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I don't know if your public declaration of the tech-embargo changed anything though as it was already appearant to me what was going to happen.

Not to mention my army was getting so big I simply *had* to attack someone before my entire economy was spent on unit-upkeep.

Last edited by bongo on 01-02-2005 at 15:37

	02-02-2005 06:21									#18
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Not to mention my army was getting so big I simply *had* to attack someone before my entire economy was spent on unit-upkeep.

Hmm... I am well understanding That ...

	07-02-2005 00:48									#19
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quote: Originally posted by bongo Not to mention my army was getting so big I simply *had* to attack someone before my entire economy was spent on unit-upkeep.

HAHA, same for me in Iron Civ C - I hade to pile in a load of totally pointless cirrupt desert cities just to get some extra unit support

	11-02-2005 21:45									#20
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Quick question : did we eventually choose to allow the use of SoZ or not ? Been so buried in work this week, that cant remember what was the result of final voting.

	11-02-2005 22:24									#21
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soZ = ON

	12-02-2005 00:17									#22
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thanks
could someone resend me the latest information email that we got from snoopy. i cleared my mails too eagerly and would like to see all the voting results and such again.

	12-02-2005 10:36									#23
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I of course can do so.

	01-05-2005 00:22									#24
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As a point of confirmation - SoZ is on (ie a civ can build it)? Correct?

	01-05-2005 11:51									#25
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yes, anyone can build it