29-01-2005 15:05									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Tacticals come with Space Flight. ICBMs with Satellites.

That's good news... somehow I always thought they came with rocketry.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:10									#32
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Technically we could argue that. We got Flight on turn 232 with a 20 turn NDA (meaning by GoW's definition we can trade it on turn 251), but were supposed to get it on 231, which means we could trade it on 250 in that light. Not sure that one turn is worth any possible argument with GoW on though.

I'm really cloudy on how deals work actually. In SP these types of things never really come up, so I just don't know how it works.

	29-01-2005 15:11									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson ND might have been there as a sort of retaliation for our Elite Tank being on "their side" (or at least GoW's) after taking out the Barb camp. The Tank was on a source of Saltpeter... that's important stuff! Otherwise it doesn't make much sense. If ND is coming for us and doesn't care if we know, they would have just pillaged it and fortified. If they are coming and wanted to hide their intentions as much as possible, why give such a clue as to their agression?

So... it was a provocation, but a polite one.

Is there any option to post some kind of unit on the source ourselves? A spear would do nicely, or a explorer or so. Just something to give the clear message of: this is our uranium, and if you want to provoke us, you better attack us too.

BTW: clue to their aggression: they stopped building marines. That in itself needs to be analysed deeper... it could very well have been that GoW has warned them that we now have a spy in ND. So, they bulk up on normal troops, and only build the marines JIT to avoid detection. Or, GoW has said to them that they better not be too agressive, because otherwise they might get involved themselves.

Why would they upgrade 6 infs? Are there 6 border cities with GoW by any chance? (or 7). It doesn't make sense: either you upgrade all of your infs, or none... so why only 6?

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:11									#34
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They might have in vanilla. I never paid attention to nukes because they never were useful in SP.

Here's how our side of the world looks after all the movement:

	29-01-2005 15:12									#35
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Hum, in that case, we better hold on for one more turn. Better not risk any discussion at all...

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:13									#36
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Aeson, what is the defense status of Elipolis?

And, should we ask for Santa Barbara in return for all the land we're giving RP?

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:16									#37
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They only have 358g so cash may be a limiting factor. They may be running a short term deficit and need to keep the cash to eat up. (Although this is Cheiftain and I don't think anything happens if you get to 0 and run a deficit... has that been ruled on? Definitely needs to be illegal of course.)

	29-01-2005 15:16									#38
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BTW, I am a bit disappointed that the galleys didn't wake up. Did ships pass within 2 tiles of the ND one, or only 3? I've read reports of the sentry command being buggy, but don't know precisely what's wrong.

The ND one retreating might be a bit of a worry for ND as well. But they know we've got subs in the neighbourhood, so it only makes sense to retreat it. And the other one can't be spotted unless a GoW sub would be close, it won't be missed either.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:20									#39
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9 MI in Elipolis and 2 Artillery. That's too much as it's 100% verified that only Cavalry, Ansars, or Riders could possibly reach it this turn.

	29-01-2005 15:21									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson They only have 358g so cash may be a limiting factor. They may be running a short term deficit and need to keep the cash to eat up. (Although this is Cheiftain and I don't think anything happens if you get to 0 and run a deficit... has that been ruled on? Definitely needs to be illegal of course.)

Hum... what would be a realistic upkeep cost for their empire? That is >1000 gold less than last turn!
They spent 120 g in upgrades, and could very well have a -200 gpt, maybe -300 gpt deficit with their high science rate, but that still leaves at least 600 g... spent on rushes perhaps? Given to GoW for who knows what reason?

Also, don't forget one thing: we are supposed to get rocketry for them, for which we've got to pay back 500 g. Normally, invasion would wait until at least we paid them back, unless they don't want us to have rocketry... in which case it would be the first deal they break in this game.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:23									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson 9 MI in Elipolis and 2 Artillery. That's too much as it's 100% verified that only Cavalry, Ansars, or Riders could possibly reach it this turn.

Don't forget that if you move MIs in, they aren't fortified. If RP gets overrun, and a bunch of tanks ends on the forests, only the MIs that are present are fortified.

But it still seems like more than enough, yes. It has a civ defense as well, right?

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:24									#42
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BTW... no 570 gold from GoW? They did owe us one last payment, right?

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:30									#43
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Do we stil want to drain off cash from RP or get them to do something useful with it to get defended or move?

RP moving is not so important as us getting defended ourselves, I would say. RP moving to Lego is more distraction than something else, in the long run we could gain from it, but I think one of the main advantages is that we concentrate on what we are good at: Stormia. We don't gain from Lego anyway.

This means that spending cash on Legoland still remains a bad choice... and their movement there is now constrained by the movement rate of transports. If units get rushed, I prefer them to be our MIs, instead of RP's infs.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:32									#44
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Builds:

Tempest: UN, 118spt, 7t
EotS: Bomber, 100spt, 1t
WoC: BB, 96spt, 1t
Dissidentville: BB, 72spt, 1t
Hurricane: BB, 68spt, 1t
Arashi: MI, 56spt, 1t
SA: MI, 54spt, 1t
Bolderberg: Bomber, 54spt, 2t
Monsoon: Transport, 52spt, 2t
Typhoon: BB, 50spt, 4t
Tornado: Sub, 50spt, 2t
Blizzard: BB, 40spt, 1t
Elipolis: DD, 32spt, 1t
OG: Carrier, 26spt, 6t
Inchoff: DD, 24spt, 1t
WW: Civil Defense, 24spt, 2t
Cyclone: Settler, 10spt, 1t
Velocity: Sub, 7spt, 7t
Sufa: Settler, 3spt, 6t

	29-01-2005 15:36									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson IND is at 126 shields and 126spt.

126 spt... so a nuke plant is definately in place. Does this also mean they run at 0 (or 1) corruption? Borcem is of course a prime candidate for the FP, but this might give confirmation

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:37									#46
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hold on... nuke plant is no guarantee yet. It's size 20 IIRC.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:37									#47
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Turn 249: 500g
Turn 247: 500g
Turn 245: 670g

I think that was the payments they've made. How much were they supposed to send altogether?

	29-01-2005 15:39									#48
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I count 85 natural shields, which puts them at 127 with a Factory? No power plant even...

	29-01-2005 15:45									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Turn 249: 500g Turn 247: 500g Turn 245: 670g I think that was the payments they've made. How much were they supposed to send altogether?

245: 170 of that is half the cost for stealing the map. So, 1500 so far... and they needed to pay 1560. Hum. Strange... somebody is missing something, most likely me

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:48									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson I count 85 natural shields, which puts them at 127 with a Factory? No power plant even...

it would be a coincidence if there would be a power plant, and some other city holds the FP balancing out the corruption leves exactly.

So Borcem is the FP... we've got ourselves a target in case of counter-invasion.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:50									#51
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Ok, so we should send GoW a message about the balance we mentioned before being wrong. I think the last message said the balance was 1070g. We don't want to look greedy.

Anything important that you can think of before I close the save? (Temp hanging in there nicely at 39C... at 1GHz... ick)

	29-01-2005 15:51									#52
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Aeson, you are quite BB-biased, I've got to say. I mean, they are about the only defendable ships as DDs are only attackers, and yes, opposed to the smallish navy of ND these are a good thing... but wouldn't the combination of a DD and a bomber be better for us? Our air force is struggling...

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Anything important that you can think of before I close the save? (Temp hanging in there nicely at 39C... at 1GHz... ick)

No... not really... we don't need any further espionage, nor movement I can think of.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:53									#54
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Borcem or Alambul would be the obvious choices for FP placement, so yah, I'd say Borcem is probably it. An FP in Alambul and Power Plant in Borcem would have Borcem at close to 150spt I think, maybe a bit more.

	29-01-2005 15:54									#55
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As to the computer-balance: we definately have to correct that if we were wrong. But maybe better to check it first, though. A lot has happened in those turns, which explains the chaos... I'm sure MZ won't mind if we set it straigth.

DeepO

	29-01-2005 15:55									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Aeson Borcem or Alambul would be the obvious choices for FP placement, so yah, I'd say Borcem is probably it. An FP in Alambul and Power Plant in Borcem would have Borcem at close to 150spt I think, maybe a bit more.

Exactly. So another thing we learned, without spending gold on it

DeepO

	29-01-2005 16:03									#57
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I'm a bit worried about our finances. Generally I prefer 2 DD's to 1 BB, but we can only support so many units before our military will drag us down whether we win with it or not. Also, a lot of these BB's are one time builds rushed with Marines. Only WoC and maybe one other site will stay on BBs.

	29-01-2005 16:08									#58
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I share your worry for our finances... and if we get invaded this is not going to improve soon. It was for me one of the main reasons why we needed to get out of mob, and I still think we should consider it, even if we are under threat. We should also consider to at least have some reserve for the bad times: if GoW decides to bomb us, we are going to lose a lot of markets, meaning that our slider has to shift towards happiness. Science will be out of the question at such a time, but we would still have the upkeep of our army... even if Monarchy is easy for us

DeepO

	29-01-2005 16:09									#59
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Closing up the save now.

	29-01-2005 16:13									#60
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Well, we're going to use our units if we get attacked. MI on offense aren't that bad.. and we'll just draft away the unhappy people. (it is getting very late!)