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Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
time: 07:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 11:42
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The beginning of the end of Republican lite? Remove this text

From today's New York Times:

quote:
Dean Emerging as Likely Chief for Democrats
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and ANNE E. KORNBLUT

ASHINGTON, Feb. 1 - Howard Dean emerged Tuesday as the almost assured new leader of the Democratic National Committee, as one of his main rivals quit the race and Democrats streamed to announce their support of a man whose presidential campaign collapsed one year ago.

Dr. Dean's dominance was secured after Martin Frost, a former representative from Texas, whom many Democrats viewed as the institutional counterpart to Dr. Dean, dropped out after failing - in what had become an increasingly long-shot effort - to win support from national labor unions. The A.F.L.-C.I.O. announced instead that it would remain neutral, freeing its affiliate members to do what they wanted, which proved in many cases to be boarding the Dean train.

"It's a fait accompli, it's over: Dean's going to be it," said Gerald McEntee, head of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, who runs the umbrella political organization for all the unions in the A.F.L.-C.I.O.

Actually, the final word rests with the 447 members of the Democratic National Committee, who will vote on Feb. 12 in Washington on a successor to Terry McAuliffe. And Dr. Dean faces a last obstacle, the candidacy of Donnie Fowler Jr., a Democratic operative from South Carolina.

Fowler aides said they hoped to benefit from the appearance of this as a two-man race with an opponent with a history of sometimes unorthodox political behavior. Still, they acknowledged that the possibility of a real competition was dimming.

There were few Democrats in Washington who doubted that Dr. Dean, the former governor of Vermont, was on the verge of taking over the party, with the support of much, though certainly not all, of its establishment. Democrats marveled at how someone who had been viewed as a symbol of some of the excesses of the party - Mr. McEntee described Dr. Dean as "nuts" after he withdrew his endorsement of him in the middle of the presidential campaign - was now on the brink of becoming a face of the opposition to President Bush.

Democrats said Dr. Dean overcame the hurdles of his failed presidential candidacy by intensely courting Democratic leaders, assuring them that he was not the liberal and undisciplined caricature that many said they saw last year. He also freely made the kind of bread-and-butter promises that have always helped politicians win elections, promising to channel at least $11 million in national Democratic money to pay salaries at the state parties, Democratic officials said.

And Dr. Dean promised that he would bring to the Democratic National Committee the base of young and enthusiastic voters and the generous Internet contributors who helped power his high-flying, if short, campaign for president.

The overtures have been embraced by Democratic leaders, many still demoralized by the Republican election machine that managed to outdo what Democrats had viewed as Mr. McAuliffe's extraordinary success in building the party's organization and fund-raising.

Dr. Dean also benefited from a relatively weak field. Democrats uncomfortable with his candidacy have had trouble finding someone to rally around: Mr. Fowler, 37, is viewed as a youthful political operative who even his allies concede may not yet have the stature to lead the party.

As chairman, Dr. Dean would not only become one of the leading voices of the party, but would also be responsible for raising money and continuing Mr. McAuliffe's effort to build a party organization in preparation for the 2006 and 2008 elections. His prominence is likely to diminish as the party's presidential candidates for 2008 start to emerge.

Dr. Dean is moving to the forefront of Washington politics at a moment when the party, seen as lacking any obvious leaders in the wake of the November defeat of Tom Daschle, the Senate minority leader, has been struggling to define its case against Mr. Bush on the war in Iraq and on overhauling Social Security.

Dr. Dean has already shown that he may not be willing to be the traditional deferential party chairman, declaring, for example, that he would have opposed the nomination of Alberto R. Gonzales for attorney general and criticizing Senator Harry Reid, the Senate minority leader, for saying he would support Justice Antonin Scalia to be chief justice.

The two Democratic leaders in Congress did not back Dr. Dean and encouraged one of his rivals, Tim Roemer, a former congressman from Indiana, and there were signs that they were not rushing to cede the stage to him.

"I think that Governor Dean would take his lead from us," said Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the House Democratic leader.

And Mr. Reid said: "The Democratic chairman has a constituency of 447 people. Our constituency is much larger than that."

Republicans, who had already been portraying the Democrats as obstructionist and extreme, seemed somewhere between being delighted and amused to have Dr. Dean to kick around again, instantly invoking a defining moment in his career.

"After 10 years, you wonder if Democrats are running out of ways to say no," said Representative Tom DeLay of Texas, the House majority leader. "But then again, if they make Howard Dean the party chairman, I guess you could scream it."

Richard Bond, the former head of the Republican National Committee, said: "He's a very capable guy, he's got high energy, but he will reinforce all of their worst instincts. His style and message is one that will narrow his party's options rather than expand them."

"I think it's a scream," Mr. Bond said.

Mr. Frost was one of two Democrats to drop out from the race on Tuesday. David Leland, a former Ohio party chairman, who had drawn minimal support for his bid, also quit, and endorsed Dr. Dean.

Mr. Frost did not make a public endorsement, though he left little doubt of how he saw the race settling. "The challenge ahead for Governor Dean will be to unite the party, rebuild the D.N.C. and win elections in every region of the country," he said.

In addition to Mr. Fowler, the remaining candidates are Mr. Roemer and Simon Rosenberg, the head of the moderate New Democrat Network . Both Mr. Roemer and Mr. Rosenberg said they would stay in the race, though their prospects appeared remote.

Several Democrats said that only Mr. Fowler appeared to have any chance of raising an anti-Dean flag, and that his hopes for doing that were contingent on Mr. Roemer and Mr. Rosenberg stepping aside.

Dr. Dean announced the support of 53 new committee members, bringing his total vote count to 103 public commitments, his campaign said. He won the formal endorsement of the Service Employees International Union, said Anna Burger, its secretary-treasurer. Among the committee members supporting him are Edward J. McElroy, the president of the American Federation of Teachers.

Mr. McEntee of the public employees union said he would probably support Dr. Dean as well. He said Mr. Fowler and his father, Don Fowler, a former D.N.C. chairman, had telephoned him Tuesday to urge him not to view Dr. Dean's election as inevitable. Mr. McEntee said he advised Mr. Fowler to quit the race.

Although some union leaders had been wary of supporting Dr. Dean, they have come to view his stewardship of the party as inevitable. Even Guillermo Meneses, a spokesman for Mr. Rosenberg, reflected a similar attitude, although he said his candidate would stay in the race.

"We are assessing the situation, with a dose of realism," he said.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/02/p...artner=homepage

Well, it could be interesting. And while it may not be a formula for near-term gains, it could lead to long term re-definition of the Dems, which could only be a good thing.

Stefu is offline Stefu
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Yaargh!

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 12:36
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Dean is not a main stream candidate and if we get a party spokesman who most mainstream people dislike then it will just make it harder for the party to get its message out. The Democrats are welcome to continue their implosion if they wish tough.

Eventually the far left wing will run out of chances and then the moderates will actually be put in charge. That's what happened to Labor in the 70's through 9-'s, that's what happened to Republicans in the 70's, and eventually Democrats will wake up to the fact that Clinton was right and the left wing needs to be muzzled for the party's good.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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It could only mean more disaster. I'm really sorry you dems are going to pick a man who is only going to throw your party into further down-ward spirial. If Dean is picked, it will truly mean a further downfall for the dems.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
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Aug 2001
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 14:55
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You wanna know what's wrong with your party? It might be the number of times labour unions and their reps are mentioned in that article.

Starchild is offline Starchild
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 15:07
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I don't get what the leader of the DNC does.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
Prince
is one way of saying it, though I prefer "mensch"
Sep 2000
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 17:44
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quote:
You wanna know what's wrong with your party? It might be the number of times labour unions and their reps are mentioned in that article.


More or less the same number of times corporate executives would be mentioned in an article about the RNC.

quote:
I don't get what the leader of the DNC does.


Pretty much what the party leader of a UK party does, except that he doesn't stand for election; he raises money, promotes the party message, tries to develop candidates for a range of national and local offices, etc.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 18:03
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If the Democrats want to have any chance of remaining a viable party, they need to go the moderate route.

Rufus T. Firefly is offline Rufus T. Firefly
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Sep 2000
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat
If the Democrats want to have any chance of remaining a viable party, they need to go the moderate route.


Pretty much what liberals said about the GOP after Goldwater, iirc...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 18:37
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The Republicans are giddy. YEEEAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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Dec 1999
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 18:50
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I am dismayed. The counter reaction will be an emboldening of the Repubs to go even farther right. This signals even less opportunity for moderate voices/candidates of both sides of the aisle to be tkaen seriously.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Re: The beginning of the end of Republican lite? Support Apolyton

quote:
Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
From today's New York Times:



http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/02/p...artner=homepage

Well, it could be interesting. And while it may not be a formula for near-term gains, it could lead to long term re-definition of the Dems, which could only be a good thing.




People who voted for Kerry were stupid. He lost anyway. They voted for the wrong guy for nothing.

Stefu is offline Stefu
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Jan 1970
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Is there actually any other eason to care about this than that Dean is involved?

CERTAINLY THIS ELECTION TO A TASK NO-ONE'S CARED A WHIT ABOUT BEFORE WILL LEAD THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TO 1000 YEARS OF VICTORY/DEFEAT

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 18:56
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People who voted for Dean were stupid. He couldn't even make it past the primary. They voted for the wrong guy for nothing.

Sikander is offline Sikander
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Jan 2000
time: 22:27
  Old Post 02-02-2005 19:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Starchild
I don't get what the leader of the DNC does.


Promises crap to people to get the job, and then screws over other people to make good on those promises once he gets the job. Typical political job.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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Mar 2003
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
People who voted for Dean were stupid. He couldn't even make it past the primary. They voted for the wrong guy for nothing.


At least they voted for the right guy, which is more than the people that voted for Kerry can say. If we're going to lose we might as well make a statement.

GePap is offline GePap
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Let the repugs be giddy-it will be their undoing.

Dean was a far better candidate than the other schmucks, and I think he will od much better than Terry in terms of creating an organization. After all, he was a successful governor for a decade.

The test will be the 2006 congressional elections. Terry McAuffile did not win a single one- if Dean wins the House back, he will have done far more than his predecessor.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Let the repugs be giddy-it will be their undoing.



I agree. Repubs have no need to show cockiness. The only way for the repubs to advance their cause is to be the real big tent party. (Afterall one of the two parties actually has to be adults one would hope. ) My fear is this apparent stupid move by Dem will embolden the wack job far right crowd and set us up form even less viable choices going forward.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
At least they voted for the right guy, which is more than the people that voted for Kerry can say. If we're going to lose we might as well make a statement.


I made a statement. Screw these "populist" schmucks! I want highly intelligent, well read, cultured (call them elitists if you want) Presidents!

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
Not only are we going to New Hampshire ... we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. To take back the White House.


Yarrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

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quote:
My fear is this apparent stupid move by Dem will embolden the wack job far right crowd and set us up form even less viable choices going forward.


I fear that your fear is correct. What ever happened to that Moderate Republican special interest that was going to be set up by Governor Whitman?

St Leo is offline St Leo
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quote:
Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
I am dismayed. The counter reaction will be an emboldening of the Repubs to go even farther right. This signals even less opportunity for moderate voices/candidates of both sides of the aisle to be tkaen seriously.


I don't think the Republicans can or should be appeased. If they want to march on Czechoslovakia and invade Poland, it will be their undoing. Don't placate the tiger with bloody meat.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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  Old Post 02-02-2005 20:28
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He couldn't even appeal to the party's base. What makes anyone thing he can expand the same base that didn't even bother to vote for him?

monolith94 is offline monolith94
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Dean very much appeals to the party base. They just chickened out, because they thought the bland kerry would do a better job of winning the moderates than Dean. They were wrong.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
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quote:
Originally posted by St Leo

I don't think the Republicans can or should be appeased. If they want to march on Czechoslovakia and invade Poland, it will be their undoing. Don't placate the tiger with bloody meat.


If one wants to use military analogies, one could easily reference Picketts Charge. Heck, the confeds didn't press their case hard enough.

"We need to take them head on. Fix bayonetts its time to charge."

MikeH is offline MikeH
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Maybe if people think the Democrats are a real choice, rather than "republican lite" they'll actually vote for them?

I didn't like Kerry (better than Bush!) a huge amount, although he was great in the debates, but Dean seemed to be more sensible.

Harry Tuttle is offline Harry Tuttle

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1. Brace sword.

2. Lean forward.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


I made a statement. Screw these "populist" schmucks! I want highly intelligent, well read, cultured (call them elitists if you want) Presidents!


Yeah well you are a conservative.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Jun 2000
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One of two things will happen.

Either the Democrats will beging to be a real difference to the Republicans, and begin pulling the country back left or they will implode. Either way, it's good for us socialists.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
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quote:
Originally posted by monolith94
Dean very much appeals to the party base. They just chickened out, because they thought the bland kerry would do a better job of winning the moderates than Dean. They were wrong.


Were they? I don't really have anything against Dean, but do you think he would have done a better job picking up the moderates?

 
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