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chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:05 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I think Che is trolling.

" the 17-year old was probably out past curfew."

Huh? Since when did Colorado have legally enforced curfew for 10:30 PM?


I don't know Colorado's curfew laws. The only ones I'm familiar with are Illinois, but I'm making the assumption (probably foolishly) that many states have similar laws. To wit, minors aren't allowed outside after 10PM except when accompanied by a guardian or on their way home. On several occassions, I'd had trouble with the police for violating curfew, including twice when I was old enough to be out past curfew (but forgot my wallet one of those times). Once I was sitting on a porch.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:07 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm curious why they didn't Rule 11 the woman for wasting the Court's time and resources.


What's Rulle 11?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
I'm curious why they didn't Rule 11 the woman for wasting the Court's time and resources.


'Cause she won. Ain't frivolous if by some act of God, you actually win.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:11
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Was talking about while the case was going on, not afterwards.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:11
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


I don't know Colorado's curfew laws. The only ones I'm familiar with are Illinois, but I'm making the assumption (probably foolishly) that many states have similar laws. To wit, minors aren't allowed outside after 10PM except when accompanied by a guardian or on their way home. On several occassions, I'd had trouble with the police for violating curfew, including twice when I was old enough to be out past curfew (but forgot my wallet one of those times). Once I was sitting on a porch.

I was just reading a leader in a newspaper about how the USA isn't such a bad country after all. Thanks for restoring my worldview.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:12
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
What's Rulle 11?


http://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/Rule11.htm

quote:
Rule 11. Signing of Pleadings, Motions, and Other Papers; Representations to Court; Sanctions

(a) Signature.

Every pleading, written motion, and other paper shall be signed by at least one attorney of record in the attorney's individual name, or, if the party is not represented by an attorney, shall be signed by the party. Each paper shall state the signer's address and telephone number, if any. Except when otherwise specifically provided by rule or statute, pleadings need not be verified or accompanied by affidavit. An unsigned paper shall be stricken unless omission of the signature is corrected promptly after being called to the attention of attorney or party.

(b) Representations to Court.

By presenting to the court (whether by signing, filing, submitting, or later advocating) a pleading, written motion, or other paper, an attorney or unrepresented party is certifying that to the best of the person's knowledge, information, and belief, formed after an inquiry reasonable under the circumstances,--

(1) it is not being presented for any improper purpose, such as to harass or to cause unnecessary delay or needless increase in the cost of litigation;

(2) the claims, defenses, and other legal contentions therein are warranted by existing law or by a nonfrivolous argument for the extension, modification, or reversal of existing law or the establishment of new law;

(3) the allegations and other factual contentions have evidentiary support or, if specifically so identified, are likely to have evidentiary support after a reasonable opportunity for further investigation or discovery; and

(4) the denials of factual contentions are warranted on the evidence or, if specifically so identified, are reasonably based on a lack of information or belief.

(c) Sanctions.

If, after notice and a reasonable opportunity to respond, the court determines that subdivision (b) has been violated, the court may, subject to the conditions stated below, impose an appropriate sanction upon the attorneys, law firms, or parties that have violated subdivision (b) or are responsible for the violation.

(1) How Initiated.

(A) By Motion. A motion for sanctions under this rule shall be made separately from other motions or requests and shall describe the specific conduct alleged to violate subdivision (b). It shall be served as provided in Rule 5, but shall not be filed with or presented to the court unless, within 21 days after service of the motion (or such other period as the court may prescribe), the challenged paper, claim, defense, contention, allegation, or denial is not withdrawn or appropriately corrected. If warranted, the court may award to the party prevailing on the motion the reasonable expenses and attorney's fees incurred in presenting or opposing the motion. Absent exceptional circumstances, a law firm shall be held jointly responsible for violations committed by its partners, associates, and employees.

(B) On Court's Initiative. On its own initiative, the court may enter an order describing the specific conduct that appears to violate subdivision (b) and directing an attorney, law firm, or party to show cause why it has not violated subdivision (b) with respect thereto.

(2) Nature of Sanction; Limitations. A sanction imposed for violation of this rule shall be limited to what is sufficient to deter repetition of such conduct or comparable conduct by others similarly situated. Subject to the limitations in subparagraphs (A) and (B), the sanction may consist of, or include, directives of a nonmonetary nature, an order to pay a penalty into court, or, if imposed on motion and warranted for effective deterrence, an order directing payment to the movant of some or all of the reasonable attorneys' fees and other expenses incurred as a direct result of the violation.

(A) Monetary sanctions may not be awarded against a represented party for a violation of subdivision (b)(2).

(B) Monetary sanctions may not be awarded on the court's initiative unless the court issues its order to show cause before a voluntary dismissal or settlement of the claims made by or against the party which is, or whose attorneys are, to be sanctioned.

(3) Order. When imposing sanctions, the court shall describe the conduct determined to constitute a violation of this rule and explain the basis for the sanction imposed.

(d) Inapplicability to Discovery.

Subdivisions (a) through (c) of this rule do not apply to disclosures and discovery requests, responses, objections, and motions that are subject to the provisions of Rules 26 through 37.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:13
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
All I know is that when I was 16 I was known to wander the streets of Montreal drunk at 3:30 in the morning and it certainly never crossed my mind that I'd be arrested...


Only evil people think there is a such thing as 3.30 in the morning.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:15
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Was talking about while the case was going on, not afterwards.


Well, again, since it did win, obviously it was not frivilous. She had enough evidence and legal arguments to succeed on the merits, which she did.

Lincoln is offline Lincoln
King
TN
Jul 2000
time: 05:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:18 Visit Lincoln's homepage!
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This reminds me of the time I loaned my car to a friend. She let it get very hot (even though I warned her to check the water) and she blew the engine. She avoided me for a couple of weeks so I thought she was embarrassed to talk to me. So I decided to approach her and tell her not to worry about the car. As it turned out she was avoiding me because she was furious because the engine blew and she had just bought $10 in gas that she couldn't use.

As for this case. Both the judge and the ungrateful b**** who filed the suit should find a life.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:20 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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embalmer42 is offline embalmer42
Warlord
The Great State Of Insanity
Jan 2000
time: 05:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:27
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Too funny....

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
I'm feeling a comment about the United States of Talibanistan coming ...


It's Bushmenistan

I'm off to bed now, so I won't make any trollish comments about these girls having to cover their hair and be escorted by a male relative

Attachment: fuhrer.jpg
This has been downloaded 122 time(s).

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Well, again, since it did win, obviously it was not frivilous.
And people wonder why I have no interest in being a lawyer. Doing that for a living would crush my soul.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:37 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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You have a soul? How did you steal it? Do you keep it in a jar?

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 04:43
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
And people wonder why I have no interest in being a lawyer. Doing that for a living would crush my soul.

You've got a soul? I'm disappointed.

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 05:14
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You have a soul? How did you steal it? Do you keep it in a jar?


mindseye is offline mindseye
King
A Yankee living in Shanghai
Apr 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 05:45
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Homeland Security.

It has come to this.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 05:50 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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#48 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Attack the issue, not the posters.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 08:19 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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The real blame is with the jury. Does any other nation use such a system?

I'm personally awaiting the Pekka response to this.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 08:22 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Smiley
The real blame is with the jury.


juries

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 08:35
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Government imposed curfews:

Setting up curfews is the responsibility of the parents. I am sick and tired of the government acting as a nanny telling people how they can and can't act, the nanny state stifles local communities.

optimus2861 is offline optimus2861
Chieftain
Halifax, NS
Nov 2000
time: 01:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 08:39
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Regardless of the motives and the nice gesture, they did cause someone to have medical problems, and so were responsible.

By knocking on the door.

By ****ing knocking on the ****ing door.

That'll teach those girls a lesson -- next time, just knock the door down, steal what you want and be on your way. At least then they've got to get you "beyond a reasonable doubt" instead of whatever cockamamie threshold of evidence led to this miscarriage of justice

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 08:42
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The judge should have thrown the case out.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 08:45 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
And people wonder why I have no interest in being a lawyer. Doing that for a living would crush my soul.


You just stuck it right out there didn't you.

korn469 is offline korn469
King
Poetic Justic
Apr 1999
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 09:56
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The girls' behavior does seem strange, ummature, and something right out of the plot of a disney tween show.

On this special episode of 7th Heaven, Hillary Duff guest stars as Lizzy Mcguire, and proceeds to get entangled in the law for distributing cookies to crank neighbors. Barry Williams (of Brady Bunch fame) guest stars as the judge.

However, the outcome of this makes me furious! In America we don't have a Justice system, we have a legal system. It seems like the facts concerning their "malicious" action is that they knocked on the door and didn't respond to the woman asking who's there, then they left. The cookies seem like almost a side issue of no importance at all. Maybe it's where I'm partially insomniatic, but 10:30 at night isn't late. Unless this woman had a sign on her property saying no trespassing, it doesn't seem like this is trespassing. I just can't see how they could have found these girls liable for her hospital bill. If she only had to pay 900 dollars in doctor bills, it sounds like she didn't wrong with her. Except that she's a pyscho freak. If I had 900 extra dollars I would send it to the girls along with enough money to countersue the woman for harrassment. I wish people could simply set down and talk things out instead of always getting the court system involved.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 12:05
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I've never heard of a state having a curfew law before. I heard news reports of a couple cities having it for after Midnight, but not a state and not for so early. Maryland certainly has no such curfew law.

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 12:28
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quote:
Originally posted by dejon
What a hag! But the system that actually accepted this as a case is the worse offender here.


word

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 13:04 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, even with permission, the 17-year old was probably out past curfew. Regardless of the motives and the nice gesture, they did cause someone to have medical problems, and so were responsible. Sux tho. I think the judge should have made the woman pay all the court fees, since she refused to settle, and wasted the sourt's time.


Isn't curfew 12:00 AM in most areas in the country?

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 13:05
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I didn't really notice this part first time I read the story:

quote:
Two teenage girls decided one summer's evening to skip a dance where there might be cursing and drinking to stay home and bake cookies for their neighbors.




This story sounds more and more like "Cry-Baby"

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:26
  Old Post 05-02-2005 13:06 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorse
quote:
curfew


WTF are you on about?

Curfew? Are you seriously claiming that there are a significant number of jurisdictions in the US with a legally imposed curfew on minors (also note that one was of legal age)...


in Las Vegas there is a curfew of 12:00 AM in minors. and they aren't allowed to drive down the Las Vegas strip.

 
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