05-02-2005 11:44									#1
	EA scandal(Is anyone surprised?) Increase the size of your Attachments

Ran across this on another forum... I *HATE* EA, who consistently LIE to their customers about supporting games... I boycotted em and got most of my friends to do the same.... anyway, here:





EA: The Human Story
My significant other works for Electronic Arts, and I'm what you might call a disgruntled spouse.

EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging much of anything to me; it sounds like a money farm. To any EA executive that happens to read this, I have a good challenge for you: how about safe and sane labor practices for the people on whose backs you walk for your millions?

I am retaining some anonymity here because I have no illusions about what the consequences would be for my family if I was explicit. However, I also feel no impetus to shy away from sharing our story, because I know that it is too common to stick out among those of the thousands of engineers, artists, and designers that EA employs.

Our adventures with Electronic Arts began less than a year ago. The small game studio that my partner worked for collapsed as a result of foul play on the part of a big publisher -- another common story. Electronic Arts offered a job, the salary was right and the benefits were good, so my SO took it. I remember that they asked him in one of the interviews: "how do you feel about working long hours?" It's just a part of the game industry -- few studios can avoid a crunch as deadlines loom, so we thought nothing of it. When asked for specifics about what "working long hours" meant, the interviewers coughed and glossed on to the next question; now we know why.

Within weeks production had accelerated into a 'mild' crunch: eight hours six days a week. Not bad. Months remained until any real crunch would start, and the team was told that this "pre-crunch" was to prevent a big crunch toward the end; at this point any other need for a crunch seemed unlikely, as the project was dead on schedule. I don't know how many of the developers bought EA's explanation for the extended hours; we were new and naive so we did. The producers even set a deadline; they gave a specific date for the end of the crunch, which was still months away from the title's shipping date, so it seemed safe. That date came and went. And went, and went. When the next news came it was not about a reprieve; it was another acceleration: twelve hours six days a week, 9am to 10pm.

Weeks passed. Again the producers had given a termination date on this crunch that again they failed. Throughout this period the project remained on schedule. The long hours started to take its toll on the team; people grew irritable and some started to get ill. People dropped out in droves for a couple of days at a time, but then the team seemed to reach equilibrium again and they plowed ahead. The managers stopped even talking about a day when the hours would go back to normal.

Now, it seems, is the "real" crunch, the one that the producers of this title so wisely prepared their team for by running them into the ground ahead of time. The current mandatory hours are 9am to 10pm -- seven days a week -- with the occasional Saturday evening off for good behavior (at 6:30pm). This averages out to an eighty-five hour work week. Complaints that these once more extended hours combined with the team's existing fatigue would result in a greater number of mistakes made and an even greater amount of wasted energy were ignored.

The stress is taking its toll. After a certain number of hours spent working the eyes start to lose focus; after a certain number of weeks with only one day off fatigue starts to accrue and accumulate exponentially. There is a reason why there are two days in a weekend -- bad things happen to one's physical, emotional, and mental health if these days are cut short. The team is rapidly beginning to introduce as many flaws as they are removing.

And the kicker: for the honor of this treatment EA salaried employees receive a) no overtime; b) no compensation time! ('comp' time is the equalization of time off for overtime -- any hours spent during a crunch accrue into days off after the product has shipped); c) no additional sick or vacation leave. The time just goes away. Additionally, EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it. Further, since the production of various games is scattered, there was a concern on the part of the employees that developers would leave one crunch only to join another. EA's response was that they would attempt to minimize this, but would make no guarantees. This is unthinkable; they are pushing the team to individual physical health limits, and literally giving them nothing for it. Comp time is a staple in this industry, but EA as a corporation wishes to "minimize" this reprieve. One would think that the proper way to minimize comp time is to avoid crunch, but this brutal crunch has been on for months, and nary a whisper about any compensation leave, nor indeed of any end of this treatment.

This crunch also differs from crunch time in a smaller studio in that it was not an emergency effort to save a project from failure. Every step of the way, the project remained on schedule. Crunching neither accelerated this nor slowed it down; its effect on the actual product was not measurable. The extended hours were deliberate and planned; the management knew what they were doing as they did it. The love of my life comes home late at night complaining of a headache that will not go away and a chronically upset stomach, and my happy supportive smile is running out.

No one works in the game industry unless they love what they do. No one on that team is interested in producing an inferior product. My heart bleeds for this team precisely BECAUSE they are brilliant, talented individuals out to create something great. They are and were more than willing to work hard for the success of the title. But that good will has only been met with abuse. Amazingly, Electronic Arts was listed #91 on Fortune magazine's "100 Best Companies to Work For" in 2003.

EA's attitude toward this -- which is actually a part of company policy, it now appears -- has been (in an anonymous quotation that I've heard repeated by multiple managers), "If they don't like it, they can work someplace else." Put up or shut up and leave: this is the core of EA's Human Resources policy. The concept of ethics or compassion or even intelligence with regard to getting the most out of one's workforce never enters the equation: if they don't want to sacrifice their lives and their health and their talent so that a multibillion dollar corporation can continue its Godzilla-stomp through the game industry, they can work someplace else.

But can they?

The EA Mambo, paired with other giants such as Vivendi, Sony, and Microsoft, is rapidly either crushing or absorbing the vast majority of the business in game development. A few standalone studios that made their fortunes in previous eras -- Blizzard, Bioware, and Id come to mind -- manage to still survive, but 2004 saw the collapse of dozens of small game studios, no longer able to acquire contracts in the face of rapid and massive consolidation of game publishing companies. This is an epidemic hardly unfamiliar to anyone working in the industry. Though, of course, it is always the option of talent to go outside the industry, perhaps venturing into the booming commercial software development arena. (Read my tired attempt at sarcasm.)

To put some of this in perspective, I myself consider some figures. If EA truly believes that it needs to push its employees this hard -- I actually believe that they don't, and that it is a skewed operations perspective alone that results in the severity of their crunching, coupled with a certain expected amount of the inefficiency involved in running an enterprise as large as theirs -- the solution therefore should be to hire more engineers, or artists, or designers, as the case may be. Never should it be an option to punish one's workforce with ninety hour weeks; in any other industry the company in question would find itself sued out of business so fast its stock wouldn't even have time to tank. In its first weekend, Madden 2005 grossed $65 million. EA's annual revenue is approximately $2.5 billion. This company is not strapped for cash; their labor practices are inexcusable.

The interesting thing about this is an assumption that most of the employees seem to be operating under. Whenever the subject of hours come up, inevitably, it seems, someone mentions 'exemption'. They refer to a California law that supposedly exempts businesses from having to pay overtime to certain 'specialty' employees, including software programmers. This is Senate Bill 88. However, Senate Bill 88 specifically does not apply to the entertainment industry -- television, motion picture, and theater industries are specifically mentioned. Further, even in software, there is a pay minimum on the exemption: those exempt must be paid at least $90,000 annually. I can assure you that the majority of EA employees are in fact not in this pay bracket; ergo, these practices are not only unethical, they are illegal.

I look at our situation and I ask 'us': why do you stay? And the answer is that in all likelihood we won't; and in all likelihood if we had known that this would be the result of working for EA, we would have stayed far away in the first place. But all along the way there were deceptions, there were promises, there were assurances -- there was a big fancy office building with an expensive fish tank -- all of which in the end look like an elaborate scheme to keep a crop of employees on the project just long enough to get it shipped. And then if they need to, they hire in a new batch, fresh and ready to hear more promises that will not be kept; EA's turnover rate in engineering is approximately 50%. This is how EA works. So now we know, now we can move on, right? That seems to be what happens to everyone else. But it's not enough. Because in the end, regardless of what happens with our particular situation, this kind of "business" isn't right, and people need to know about it, which is why I write this today.

If I could get EA CEO Larry Probst on the phone, there are a few things I would ask him. "What's your salary?" would be merely a point of curiosity. The main thing I want to know is, Larry: you do realize what you're doing to your people, right? And you do realize that they ARE people, with physical limits, emotional lives, and families, right? Voices and talents and senses of humor and all that? That when you keep our husbands and wives and children in the office for ninety hours a week, sending them home exhausted and numb and frustrated with their lives, it's not just them you're hurting, but everyone around them, everyone who loves them? When you make your profit calculations and your cost analyses, you know that a great measure of that cost is being paid in raw human dignity, right?

Right?

from: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea_spouse/274.html


((MORE IN NEXT POST-Could not fit it all))

	05-02-2005 11:45									#2
	Full PM-box? Change here!

========================
WANT MORE? --->

New York Times: "When a Video Game Stops Being Fun", by Randall Stross :
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/21/b...ner=rssuserland

Los Angeles Times: "Working Too Hard in an Industry of Fun and Games", by Alex Pham :
http://www.latimes.com/classified/j...s-employ-career

Salon.com: "Santa's Sweatshop", by Katharine Mieszkowski
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2...s/index_np.html
and follow-up, "A change of heart for Scrooge?":
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2...p/index_np.html

CNet News: "For developers, it's not all fun and games" :
http://news.com.com/For+developers%..._3-5457274.html

National Public Radio: "Stressed-Out Game Designers Sue Software Maker", by Laura Sydell :
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/segment.php?wfId=4206253

Wall Street Journal: "Workers at EA Claim They Are Owed Overtime" :
http://www.livejournal.com/users/ea...=719890#t719890

CNN.com: "Gaming's growing pains" :
http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/15/com...aming/index.htm

San Francisco Examiner: "Long hours spur online rant" :
http://www.examiner.com/article/index.cfm/i/111204n_ea

Lockergnome.com: "When A Video Game Stops Being Fun" :
http://channels.lockergnome.com/new...being_fun.phtml

Prior to its extended article, and after, CNet released a few others:
http://news.com.com/2061-1043-54492...g=rsspr.5449339
http://news.com.com/Electronic+Arts...bj=news.1043.20
http://news.com.com/5208-1043-0.htm...7528&start=-195
http://news.com.com/Electronic+Arts..._3-5476714.html

InsertCredit.com: "News: EA: The Human Story" :
http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/000019.html

Kotaku: "Fear and loathing at Electronic Arts" :
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/indust...arts-025405.php

BluesNews: "Op Ed" (with comments) :
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/bo...&threadid=52772

Gamasutra News: "'EA Spouse' Weblog Raises Issues On Game Development Quality of Life" :
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/ne....php?story=4543

Enginesofmischief.com (Evan Robinson): "It's Not Just Abusive. It's Stupid." :
http://enginesofmischief.com/blogs/.../2004/11/11/643

GameStar.de: "Krasse Arbeitsbedingungen in den USA" :
http://www.gamestar.de/news/branchen/21547/

Heise.de: "Kein Spaß bei Electronic Arts" :
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/53216

WorldAccess.nl: "Slavenarbeid bij EA?" :
http://www.worldaccess.nl/planet/sh...24009/sc=77221f

ForeverGeek.com: "EA Employees Unhappy, Attempt Class Action Lawsuit" (with comments) :
http://forevergeek.com/games/ea_emp...ion_lawsuit.php

Pagtech.com: "EA Work Conditions" :
http://www.pagtech.com/News/EAWorkConditions.html

Homelanfed.com: "A Spouse's Look At Electronic Arts" :
http://www.homelanfed.com/index.php?mode=mail&id=27444

FiringSquad.com: "Corporate culture problem at EA?" (with comments) :
http://firingsquad.com/news/newsart...p?searchid=7349

Cinescape.com: "Electronic Arts: Innocent or Guilty?" :
http://www.cinescape.com/0/editoria...4&sub_id=272439

Joystiq.com: "'EA spouse' speaks out!" :
http://www.joystiq.com/entry/2500628063884828

Totalgaming.net: "EA Spouse talks about life as a PC game developer" :
http://totalgaming.stardock.com/for...MID=5&AID=34709

TechReview.com: "Gamer Overtime" :
http://www.techreview.com/blog/blog.asp?blogID=1651

Kotaku: "Former EA employee speaks out under real name" :
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/indust...name-025556.php

Kotaku: "EA promises changes in leaked internal memo" :
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/busine...memo-026800.php

Kotaku: "Exclusive: EA confirms memo is real" :
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/busine...real-026895.php

Kotaku: "EA suit could change the face of the gaming industry" :
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/legal/...stry-025586.php

Kotaku: "EA keeps the promises coming" :
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/busine...ming-027156.php

GameDaily.biz: "EA Feeling Pressure, May Reclassify Overtime" :
http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.a...=feature&email=

Mercury News.com: "EA to reconsider OT-eligible jobs" :
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/d...gy/10359549.htm

BluesNews: "EA Class Action Suit Coming?" (with comments) :
http://www.bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/bo...&threadid=52808

Salon.com: "Raking muck in 'The Sims Online'" :
http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2...aper/index.html

Gamespot.com: "Employees readying class-action lawsuit against EA" :
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/1...ws_6112998.html

1up.com: "EA Faces Class-Action Overtime Suit" :
http://cgw.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3136538

Wargamer.com: "EA Facing Lawsuit Over Worker Pay" :
http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=1451

Lunabean.com: "EA Not One of the 100 Best Places to Work?" :
http://www.lunabean.com/news/000795.php

TheSimsZone.co.uk: "EA Employees sue Company" :
http://news.thesimszone.co.uk/archive.php?ID=1847

GamesIndustry.biz: "Developer working conditions hide a cancer in the games industry" :
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/conten...me=dev&aid=3721

Gamespot.com: "Neil Young heads to EALA" :
http://www.gamespot.com/news/produc...2/14/index.html

Gamepro.com: "Top Gaming Lows of 2004" :
http://www.gamepro.com/gamepro/dome...res/40850.shtml

Penny Arcade news items:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2004-11-12
http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2004-11-15
http://www.penny-arcade.com/news.php3?date=2004-12-15
Other victims of the corporate juggernaut:

Joe Straitiff, ex-EA: http://www.livejournal.com/users/joestraitiff/368.html
Another_EA_Spouse: http://workingweek.blogspot.com/
Jason Della Rocca: http://www.igda.org/blogs/realitypa...ves/000233.html
SnarkySpot, also listed above: http://snarkyspot.blogspot.com/2004...ainst-game.html
Evan Robinson: http://enginesofmischief.com/blogs/.../2004/11/10/640
Kylov, interesting student perspective: http://khylov.deviantart.com/journal/4021821/
John Dvorak: http://www.dvorak.org/blog/index.php?p=748
Code Monkey: http://thepixelmine.blogspot.com/
Tossed.org: http://www.tossed.org/modules.php?n...e=article&sid=7
Charles Miller: http://fishbowl.pastiche.org/2004/1...uthin-doin.html
Malevolent.com: http://www.malevolent.com/weblog/ar...suffering-arts/
Inordinate.net: http://inordinate.net/wordpress/index.php?p=241
Darren Barefoot: http://www.darrenbarefoot.com/archives/001357.html
Adeliedreams: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ad...eams/80750.html
GameGirlAdvance: http://www.gamegirladvance.com/arch...se_to_home.html
CGAnimation: http://cganimation.blogspot.com/200...ed-artists.html
Thealguy: http://thealguy.blogspot.com/2004/1...just-sucks.html
Suberfantacularizzle: http://suberfantacularizzle.blogspo...ork-for-ea.html
Skor Grimm: http://skorgrimm.blogspot.com/2004/...t-ea-games.html
Pingz.com: http://www.pingz.com/2004/11/when-spouses-attack.php
Room101: http://www.drakkos.pwp.blueyonder.c.../ea-spouse.html
Onyxorison: http://onyxorison.blogspot.com/2004...orking-for.html
Interestingdrug: http://interestingdrug.blogspot.com...-sweatshop.html
Mark Raimondi: http://mraimondi.blogspot.com/2004/...s-good-ass.html
Harold "AlphaTwo Vaughan": http://alphatwo.blogspot.com/2004/1...s-it-pours.html
Blog247.blogspot: http://blog247.blogspot.com/2004/11/power-of-blogs.html
Limshengming.com: http://www.limshengming.com/index.php?p=204
Longklaw.com: http://www.longklaw.com/archives/20...enge_every.html
No Status Quo: http://www.nosq.com/leaderhsip/2004/11/ea-spouse-story/
Keith Soltys: http://www.soltys.ca/coredump/2004/...time-at-ea.html
Bruce (bigkid.com.au): http://www.bigkid.com.au/2004/11/12...s_exploitation/
Guilesworld.com: http://www.guilesworld.com/blog/_ar.../12/181569.html
Stuart Moulder: http://www.livejournal.com/users/st...lder/88892.html
Genoism: http://flashmade.com/genoism/forums/

Note: All these links were unceremoniously pilfered from ea_spouse's site.

Also, I am sorry I had to own this thread this badly, but for the time being, anyone saying EA doesn't deserve hatred needs an immediate beating with the cluebat. You sir, have been served.

Oh yeah, I also suspect this was written by someone under EA-Mark (Skaggs), who on the moral level is JUST BARELY above a chestburster from aliens.

	05-02-2005 11:48									#3
	Suffering from ads?

Old, old news.

Sorry to counter-own this thread.

	05-02-2005 12:56									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Project-based work is the worst.

Avoid it at all costs.

Rewards can be high but sometimes the cost of the rewards are not worth it.

	05-02-2005 14:00									#5
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

90 hours a week? Not even architects have it that bad, and I thought that architecture was in the lead of artistic exploitation. Outsourcing, standardization, and automation have ended the days of draftsmen drawing stairwells 24/7, I suppose that might be coming to the game industry soon also.

	05-02-2005 16:29									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Is anyone surprised?

Not really...

	05-02-2005 16:55									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

i dont buy EA anymore. But i'm not surprised - someone would eventualy try it.

A friend interviewed for a job at Eidos recently(and a very low wage one at that).

At the point they asked that person if they were willing to work 7 days a week, this person said they weren't sure as they had a real life to live as well - shopping/washing/partner etc, but were happy to give as much as possible.
It wasn't good enough and the interview ended early. It wasn't even a programming job.

Seems like the EA-ism's are creeping into other companies too?

	05-02-2005 17:35									#8
	Tired of ads?

Sucks being salaried.

ACK!

	05-02-2005 18:04									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Programers have a **** job. The have to work long hours with tight deadlines and their traditionally high pay is slipping because the Indians and Russians can do the same job for less money. If EA hires more people then perversely work might slow down as you are trying to coordinate more people writing code which still has to work together. Thus often the best solution is to just get a few people who work extremely long hours.

Sucks for them but that's economics and they choice the industry.

	05-02-2005 18:24									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Games programmers have it that way, not all programmers. I work for as a CAD programmer. Our customers are industry. Sure, work is moving to India. From a group that had developpers in France and the U.S, we moved to mostly France and U.S. plus some in India and Israel. But people will not work routinely more than 45-50 hours a week at most, and only those who want to work that much. A company like Stardock, for whom games development is only a small part, also stresses they ask reasonable hours (like 40 a week) from their employees. So there is certainly some room for disgrnutled employees to move away from companies like EA.

	05-02-2005 18:39									#11
	Tired of ads?

I hope that the lawsuit of the employees against EA is successful.

As ist was pointed out, such a behavior seems to be not only immoral, but also illegal, even within the USA.

And it sounds to me like a good reason to institute harsher laws against such practices, which guarantee a proper compensation for overtime
or, in case of unpaid overtime at least, that employees don´t have to work more than one month a year undr these conditions.

	05-02-2005 21:24									#12
	Inflate your Upload Space

I worked 90 hours mandatory overtime doing software development before I quit and went to law school. I was paid straight time for the extra hours. But it was so lucrative, that I was driving a fancy car and still was able to save enough money to pay for law school.

The long hours do cause a lot of stress and a drop in productivity. But an awful lot does seem to get down in a very short time.

And, guess what? Law firms ask associates to work ungodly hours with no extra compensation for the extra hours -- except for a chance to make partner.

I would only hope these EA employees are compensated in some fashion for the overtime. As I said, I was paid straight time. I assume these folks are paid straight time as well. If so, all those extra hours can be very lucrative.

As well, Silicon Valley is famous for granting everyone stock options. I assume the folks at EA are getting them as well. On average, these stock options give even mid-level employees a significant boost in income, at least equal to their salaries.

	05-02-2005 21:33									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I just read a few of the links. It does appear that EA does not pay even straight time for the extra hours. For that reason, I think the lawsuit is somewhat justified.

	05-02-2005 21:38									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I didn't know you went to law school ned. Do you still practice and what area?

	05-02-2005 21:39									#15
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I didn't know you went to law school ned. Do you still practice and what area?

Retired at this point. But I am a patent attorney.

	05-02-2005 21:49									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Ned I worked 90 hours mandatory overtime doing software development before I quit and went to law school.....edit........

wow. I dont even push my virtual populations in Call To Power 2 that far - if i try they revolt

I've done long hrs too in certain jobs, maybe near a few 80hrs back to back for a few weeks max. I always felt the upside of such a strategy didn't always balance the downside though - for me or the job i was doing?

What i dont like about this whole thing in the game industry is that its being used to completely exploit young hopefulls who think games are 'cool', and i'm pretty sure the guys at the top of the decision making know exactly what they are doing.

So imho the sooner some big names get a court ruling against them, the better of the whole industry will become.

	05-02-2005 21:51									#17
	Support Apolyton

child of Thor, the unjust part is that it is both mandatory and uncompensated.

	05-02-2005 22:04									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

These people are wimps. Medical residents routinely work 120 hours a week. Just ask Guynemer.

	05-02-2005 22:21									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Ned Retired at this point. But I am a patent attorney.

I've been tempted to go back to get a science ba, and take the patent bar.

	05-02-2005 22:39									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

i do long hours but i kind of own half the company. who can i sue?

	05-02-2005 22:59									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Blame the US. Everyone else does.

	05-02-2005 23:08									#22
	Get a bigger avatar today!

hmmm i'll just blame Bush i guess

	05-02-2005 23:10									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

As far as the article goes, comp time does accrue and is taken after a game ships. I see no problem with EA's MO. This is no scandal.

80 or 90 hours a week is doable for a short period of time. That said, I've done 90-100 hours a week for a couple months straight and couldn't take it, once I got into my late 20s. On the other hand, I didn't have a couple months off to recuperate, as an EA employee would, apparently.

Many doctors do those kind of hours consistently, but I don't think they or their patients are any better off for it.

Last edited by DanS on 05-02-2005 at 23:19

	05-02-2005 23:31									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by DanS As far as the article goes, comp time does accrue and is taken after a game ships. I see no problem with EA's MO. This is no scandal.

The Article says that exactly this isn´t the case

quote: And the kicker: for the honor of this treatment EA salaried employees receive a) no overtime; b) no compensation time! ('comp' time is the equalization of time off for overtime -- any hours spent during a crunch accrue into days off after the product has shipped); c) no additional sick or vacation leave. The time just goes away. Additionally, EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it.

Sounds to me like the Company gets lots of free Labor.
The Employees are obviously forced to work this way the whole time and, if an employee is "wasted" and quits, no problem, as they just hire a new employee who doesn´t yet know of these practices.

	05-02-2005 23:36									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Oh, OK. I misread the article. Well, I hope they are paying their people well enough that the extra work is worth it. It's tough to know whether it's worth it without knowing their salaries.

	05-02-2005 23:45									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by DanS As far as the article goes, comp time does accrue and is taken after a game ships.

from the article

quote: EA recently announced that, although in the past they have offered essentially a type of comp time in the form of a few weeks off at the end of a project, they no longer wish to do this, and employees shouldn't expect it. Further, since the production of various games is scattered, there was a concern on the part of the employees that developers would leave one crunch only to join another. EA's response was that they would attempt to minimize this, but would make no guarantees.

	05-02-2005 23:58									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by pchang These people are wimps. Medical residents routinely work 120 hours a week. Just ask Guynemer.

So do some nurses. But the difference for us usually is that we are not salaried. But the overtime we get most goes in taxes. andhave to deal with all kinds of people and their families.

	06-02-2005 00:03									#28
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by DanS Oh, OK. I misread the article. Well, I hope they are paying their people well enough that the extra work is worth it. It's tough to know whether it's worth it without knowing their salaries.

Some of those links gave salaries; programers make $60k while animators make $75k. There is a class action law suitewhich has been filed in San Mateo claiming both of those positions don't fall under the excempt status in California law so they are claiming EA owes thousands of employees years of unpaid overtime.

	06-02-2005 00:09									#29
	Inflate your Upload Space

Is that $60k a starting salary? If not, then that's not very good wages, especially in California. Over time, they won't get the good programmers.

I'm inclined to leave this to the industry to figure out.

	06-02-2005 00:13									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Say, what ever happened to the 20 hour workweek we were supposed to have by now?