06-02-2005 19:02									#1
	City placement Remove this text

This thread is to discuss one of the first general strategy choice our horde will be facing: city placement.

I suggest a near ICS spacing given the size of the world and the number of our opponents. Here are my suggestions regarding the city placement:

1. Move our scout around a little bit to find the most suitable place for the capital. Build it on the river if possible (Don't build the city immediately).
2. Build as many cities along the same river as we can, taking into account these cities will be those that will grow beyond 6 (so I suggest spacing like xooxoox).
3. Build other cities on or near resources and generally follow the build pattern xoxoxox if the land is good or the build pattern xooxoox if the land is not so good.
4. Take great care to never build the city on shielded grassland.

	06-02-2005 19:22									#2
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This game may be very aggressive and competetive so I think a dense city placement will serve us well. Dense and well connected

That xooxoox is a good starting point but we should allow some flexibilty.

Your only point I disagree upon is the first city, unless our scout discovers a better site on turn 0, we should settle our capital on either turn 0 or 1.

	08-02-2005 15:26									#3
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I too would like to see a dense formation of our cities. Bongo states it well in that this "may be very aggressive and competetive."

Good defense and quick reaction squads will allow us a greater flexibility in taking out our Horde to decimate Beta and Aqua

	10-02-2005 04:44									#4
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I think a fairly dense city placement will serve us well, since we are very likely to use a cavarly-based army. This would allow us to move those cavalry (and the defensive infantry) around quickly and get multiple use from them.

I believe we should send our scout out to pop goodie huts. The only advantage we will ever get from being expansionistic is early in the game popping those huts. Since we are guaranteed to get something good, we should probably research the CHEAPEST tech first (so that the goodie huts that give us techs give us more expensive ones).

	10-02-2005 05:04									#5
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Do we build a granary or not? I say no to granary. Barracks take precedence to granaries in my book. We should be satisfied with the irrigated cattle.

Those who think differently should remember that the enemy might be very near.

	10-02-2005 12:21									#6
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yes a barracks could be a good investment

we will be facing a few hostile civs in this world here

let them not see our blood
let them taste their own

	10-02-2005 16:39									#7
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Granaries are normally the best choice when you want a settler factory going. But like you said, this map is crowded and we should prioritize our army.

	11-02-2005 01:28									#8
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Barracks and temples first in between troops of course

	14-02-2005 22:15									#9
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Ok we have discussed barracks, granaries, temples and troops

at this time Ljube is talking of our three cities producing scouts

I understand the desire for scouts
- good to see what is around
- good for popping huts

Yet I feel we should consider:
- this is a small map, and we have already uncovered a fair proportion
- there are 6 teams sharing this small land
- this is a pangea, so there is a water mass, which I believe has been set at 60%
- we have seen no huts yet... so there is nothing to say the Dominae actually placed huts on the map
- we should expect traps and tricks within the map, from Dominae
(such as lots of ivory and little iron)
- we should also expect to be right next to another civ, if not to actually have all 6 civs within a small tangled web of some such wicked design

Please know that the designers of the Last Viking Demo Game went to get lengths to cause as much mischief and problems as they could. Follow this link to see a piece of what I mean, The Map of SP-Demogame III

So I look to our barracks and warriors, and settlers and all the things we need quickly... oh so quickly to defend and attack

for I do not expect that we will have that many years / turns before we see bands of marauders on our door steps.

Yet in acceptance of scouts I also say that the General who knows where the enemy is, and can keep his own units hidden, should be the general whom command the field of battle, and inturn has already won the day ain't theory grand

	14-02-2005 23:03									#10
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I think barracks are worth the investment, many players rely on regulars so if we can get vets quickly we should have an advantage in early encounters

	15-02-2005 01:16									#11
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Paddy, you popped one hut on turn 2, so there are huts, let's get them.

Scouts can explore our enemies and make contact with our friends. Scouts can pillage too. Build scouts first, warriors next (except Karakorum which should build a settler after the scout), settlers next, then barracks in all cities, then spear and warriors.

	15-02-2005 01:28									#12
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Good point, I need more Red Wine, some fresh pig and do we have a baker yet, thick toasted bread to sop up the gravey

	15-02-2005 02:00									#13
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this is a smal map is it ? can we afford to build scouts first ?

Not doubting your strategy Ljube but just looking at from another angle.

If we run into trouble very early shouldnt we be prepared to defend ourselves ?

	15-02-2005 02:02									#14
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Just wanted to add that there is at least one team out there that will make a beeline to harm our Horde.

	15-02-2005 02:41									#15
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Hmm, we should make sure each city is covered by at least one unit, even from the start. So one of those scouts builds should be changed to warrior.

	15-02-2005 17:04									#16
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus this is a smal map is it ? can we afford to build scouts first ? Not doubting your strategy Ljube but just looking at from another angle. If we run into trouble very early shouldnt we be prepared to defend ourselves ?

Usually I would build only military to protect myself. But I don't usually pick expansion trait. Since we picked it, let's use it.

If we build scouts we can spot the danger in time and change the build in our cities to prevent a possible invasion. Also we can pop huts and possibly get a city which would be grand. I'm not advocating many scouts, but 2-3 of them seem an adequate number. We should start scouts in Ta-TU and Karakorum and warrior in Kazan. After that start warriors and put them on mountains south of Kazan so that they could spot the danger in time.

	15-02-2005 17:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Just wanted to add that there is at least one team out there that will make a beeline to harm our Horde.

Then let's see many turns in advance if their forces are on the move. Put warriors on mountains close to our cities and scouts on mountains farther away as sentries.

	15-02-2005 17:22									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Then let's see many turns in advance if their forces are on the move. Put warriors on mountains close to our cities and scouts on mountains farther away as sentries.

I like this indeed...


a hut popping we shall go,
a hut popping we shall go,
hi ho the merry O a hut popping we shall go

	16-02-2005 05:28									#19
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Let's set a couple of principles and guidelines for our builds, units and settlers. That way we can avoid the debate on particular moves and shorten the time we spend negotiating our turns.


Scouts:

Scouts should always pop huts.
If they can't pop huts they should end their turn on a mountain.
If they can't end turn on a mountain, they should end turn on a hill.
If they can't end turn on a hill, they should end turn on such a terrain which will allow for two moves in the direction they were heading in the succeeding turn.


Warriors:

Exploring warriors should move a couple of spaces away from a city, but stay close just in case.
When they have uncovered enough land, if there is a mountain they should hold it.
If there is a hill they should hold it.
If there is a resource they should hold it.
If there is nothing they should return to the city.


Workers:

Workers must observe the No of turns required for their action.
If there is only one worker, they will irrigate or mine first, road second.
If there are two workers they will irrigate or mine first, road second.
If there are three workers they will road first. Two of them will remain there to irrigate next turn while the third will move.
If there are four workers they will irrigate or mine first. Three of them will remain there to road next turn while the fourth will move.

	16-02-2005 06:21									#20
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Excellent principles IMO.

	16-02-2005 06:45									#21
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good value indeed

ok, so we are getting some structure to all of this, most excellent

The turns are getting done within the time frames

We are starting to discuss and propse long term goals

Hope to see you all in the Wild Boar for some drinks and a feast of Goat

	16-02-2005 08:20									#22
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well I am also learning by watching and waiting to put in my views.

I will say I appaluad the direction and while limited CIVIII experience, note that we should indeed have at least a few production based cities producing defensive as well as a small mike force (quick strike) to respond to any 9-1-1 emergencies that flare up

Good job all

Gramps

	16-02-2005 08:32									#23
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yes indeed we would be a sad old Horde without a Mike Force indeed

	01-03-2005 15:53									#24
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OK, let's use this thread to plan our current and future city builds. My suggestions:

Khan's Blood Hall
After barracks build vet archer first, settlers next

Bokhara
Switch to barracks, upon finishing start settlers

Ta-Tu
Complete warrior, upon finishing start settlers

	01-03-2005 16:06									#25
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added to the "long term plans" in the save thread

	09-03-2005 20:58									#26
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with 3 new settlers coming through the build queues we need to start looking at where to send them

the following is where we agreed for the 1st...

Attachment: next city build.jpg
This has been downloaded 79 time(s).

	11-03-2005 19:22									#27
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I just love the beach...What do you think about a city by the sea? Perhaps 4,4,7,7,7 from Ta-Tu?

	12-03-2005 01:39									#28
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO I just love the beach...What do you think about a city by the sea? Perhaps 4,4,7,7,7 from Ta-Tu?

	12-03-2005 04:16									#29
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It's too far away from our core for now. However we'll get to that spot later.

	12-03-2005 06:28									#30
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Sounds good to me! I was just thinking that it would be good to have a place to launch galleys to transport troops to Pig Country (assuming, as I do, that they are also close to the coast). It would also get dyes within the city radius as soon as our culture expanded.

But I agree, we need to keep the spacing close at this juncture....just dreamin' of the beach.