07-02-2005 16:42									#1
	Weird things you do... Increase the size of your Attachments

...with your extra workers. usualy in the mid industrial age, after the radiuses of all my cities are mined, irrigated and railroaded, i end up with a gazilion of workers. last game i was nearing a hundred and they were all running out of things to do. i was really happy to get poluted squares. if i have a lot of money and my towns are near size 20, then usualy just dispose of the captured ones, spreading them to reinforce population around the empire. for the rest of the boys it's building railroads on every unused tile, the great wall of china with barricade... i even turned western australia into a sherwood forest once, to block the arab cavalry.
so, what weird stuff do you get you ppl to do?

	07-02-2005 17:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Join them to cities? Make them work conquered lands? Automate, so I don't get bothered with cleaning Pollution? Build Radar Towers? Build Airfields? Build Forts? Disband?

If I ever do weird things with Workers, it's shortly before Rails, when I might have too many, but wouldn't want them disbanded, waiting for Railroads to come. I'll build Forts then.

	07-02-2005 18:13									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I only micromanage workers in the first and a part of the second era. After that I automate them all.

And auto-polution-cleaning workers do a very good job!

	07-02-2005 18:22									#4
	Support Apolyton

Besides all of the above, I'll sometimes plant them on costal hills and mountains since the AI loves to unload its troops there.

	07-02-2005 18:36									#5
	Support Apolyton

I stack the on top of a mountain, deep inside of my country borders, and ignore them until I need them. I'm talking modern era here after everything concerning RR, pollution, improvements are done.

I simply do this so I can find those guys when I need them. Yes, it's a bit cold up there, but I'm a despot, dammit.

	07-02-2005 20:54									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by CyberShy I only micromanage workers in the first and a part of the second era. After that I automate them all. And auto-polution-cleaning workers do a very good job!

It's pity they don't keep the setting if there is no pollution. Just... hang around, have a cup of coffee, and if pollution shows up get to work.

	07-02-2005 21:04									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

SHIFT+a. After everyting is improved, works exactly like automatic Pollution cleaning. If nothing is left to be cleaned, the Workers fortify in cities, waiting for work to show up.

	07-02-2005 21:24									#8
	Re: Weird things you do... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Cvetin if i have a lot of money and my towns are near size 20, then usualy just dispose of the captured ones, spreading them to reinforce population around the empire.

Why dispose of the captured wokers? Keep them and get rid of the native workers as they cost maint.

	07-02-2005 22:01									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Besides all of the above, I'll sometimes plant them on costal hills and mountains since the AI loves to unload its troops there.

They could still unload their troops there. Workers no longer prevent an enemy from landing on the coast.

	07-02-2005 22:08									#10
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Yes, that's expensive cannon fodder.

	07-02-2005 22:09									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Didn't know that! Odd that I've never seen the AI do it.

	07-02-2005 22:32									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Add it to the list of 10,000 other smart things the AI could do, but doesn't.

	07-02-2005 22:48									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

You can??

Even without marines?? Dang, learn something new every day.

I've used workers for this very reason too. I never even attempted to do this or saw the AI do this.

quote: Workers no longer prevent an enemy from landing on the coast

You say no longer, is this then a C3C thingy?

	07-02-2005 23:04									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I am guessing that he means you could use the lethal bombardment to kill the worker and then land.

I doubt that you could land on top of any units or capture workers with out a marine or berserker.

	07-02-2005 23:08									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

You could. It's a "C3C thingy" indeed.

	08-02-2005 00:15									#16
	Put an end to popups!

Yup, I didn't remember if it was changed in C3C or in a previous patch, but sure enough, you can land right on top of workers and capture them - no bombardment needed.

Give it a try.

	08-02-2005 00:16									#17
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I railroad everything, including squares that do not benefit from railroads.

	08-02-2005 00:19									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Besides all of the above, I'll sometimes plant them on costal hills and mountains since the AI loves to unload its troops there.

reminds me of a game I was bored, and had a lot of extra tanks. I really didn't need to. But I loaded every single coastal tile with tanks and mech. infantry. This made it impossible to land any troops- they would have had to use marines to take one of my coastal cities. I also created a "line" with the nation to the south. I wanted to make it impossible for fast moving units to reach my cities in one turn.

it was useless though, i was never attacked again. But the line looked cool. And looking cool is all that counts.

	08-02-2005 00:47									#19
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by alexman You could. It's a "C3C thingy" indeed.

Does the AI know that? I still use workers to prevent landings before marines and the AI never pulled that off and moves around to find an opening.

Of course the AI does not use this blocking, so I have never tried to land on them. I will have to keep and eye open or set up a test.

I know we use that tactic vs humans in PTW still, but I have not been in a C3C pbem.

	08-02-2005 01:04									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In Conquests:

If Non-Industrious, it's equally good to join equavlent numbers of slaves into cities as native workers under a non-representive govt. If industrious it's advantegous to join equalvent slaves than native workers under a non representive govt. Also if your under a Representive govt, it's always advantegous to join equalivent number of slaves over workers. This is due to oppertunity costs.

A worker of any type has an oppertunity cost of at least 1 GPT under a non-representive govt and at least 2 GPT under a rep govt:
(2 gold as Taxmen under any govt, 2+ gold working any tile [that's been roaded in case of land] under a rep govt, 1+ gold working any tile [that's been roaded in case of land] under non-rep govt.) True, this is before corruption, but that is generally canceled out [and more] more by city improvemnt multipliers.

On the work side of the equation: 3 slaves = 1 ind native worker.
2 slaves = 1 non ind native worker.

	08-02-2005 15:16									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Why dispose of the captured wokers? Keep them and get rid of the native workers as they cost maint.



yeah, i know, but at this point i'm usually awash with dough and don't really care about 20-30 gold more or less. and of course, natives are faster. also, being balkan-boy i like to do a genoci, i mean, a melting pot on the captured workies

	08-02-2005 17:27									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wasted a lot of time in my first games micromanaging everything because I didn't know if the automatic settler setting could be trusted. Is there an automate settler option that would work for railroading every last tile on a landmass that is in my cultural borders?

	08-02-2005 17:38									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

When I negotiate with the AI I often see that they can offer 'workers' as part of a deal. I've been including this in some deals and each time in a later turn I get a single foreign worker in my palace city.

Are these workers exactly like captured workers? Will they return to their home civ at the end of the 20 year agreement? If so is it probably a good idea to join them to some city with zero chance of flipping or even to disband them for a handful of shields right before the 20 year agreement expires? Is it possible to get the AI to cough up more than one worker at a time? Is it possible to offer the AI my own workers if I want to sweeten a deal without resorting to commiting gold or other goodies?

Thanks in advance for any insight on this sort of 'trade'

	08-02-2005 18:39									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

geronimo, you can trade your workers, so long as they are in your capital. ai diddo. so you have to hope they will somehow have more then one worker in the palace city at the time you talk business, which has never happened to me. don't worry about lessie going back home after 20 turns, he's all yours

	08-02-2005 18:45									#25
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I wasted a lot of time in my first games micromanaging everything because I didn't know if the automatic settler setting could be trusted. Is there an automate settler option that would work for railroading every last tile on a landmass that is in my cultural borders?

SHIFT+a. They don't change any existing improvements then and mostly start with Rails. However, they will also build Mines where they can't be used (inside a city radius, but without enough food around), build Irrigation where it gives too much food, and won't fear enemies when at war. Like I said, it's best used as automatic Pollution removal.

In general, managing Workers is one of the most important skills for a player. Above Monarch, you really don't want to automate them for most of the game.

quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Are these workers exactly like captured workers?

Yes.

quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Will they return to their home civ at the end of the 20 year agreement? If so is it probably a good idea to join them to some city with zero chance of flipping or even to disband them for a handful of shields right before the 20 year agreement expires?

They won't be returned. You buy them the same way you buy technology. It's safe to join them to cities.

quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Is it possible to get the AI to cough up more than one worker at a time? Is it possible to offer the AI my own workers if I want to sweeten a deal without resorting to commiting gold or other goodies?

Yes, and yes. Workers can be sold/bought only if they sit in a civ's capital. In the early stages, buying Workers away can cripple the AI considerably. If they are at war, or fighting barbarians, they will frequently have more than one Worker in their capital. Never sell Workers, unless you want to strenghten that specific AI.

	08-02-2005 19:00									#26
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 SHIFT+a. They don't change any existing improvements then and mostly start with Rails. However, they will also build Mines where they can't be used (inside a city radius, but without enough food around), build Irrigation where it gives too much food, and won't fear enemies when at war. Like I said, it's best used as automatic Pollution removal.

I don't understand. Why can't mines be used inside a city radius?

Why is it bad to build irrigation where it gives too much food? I've been doing that in high corruption cities so that the city will become so huge it can support enough police to eek out a few shields despite the grotesque corruption.

	08-02-2005 19:09									#27
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Geronimo I don't understand. Why can't mines be used inside a city radius?

If you have a city in the Tundra, which can't grow due to low food, it's no use to Mine all those Mountains around. The automated Workers will do that anyway - for every Mountain inside a city radius.

quote: Originally posted by Geronimo Why is it bad to build irrigation where it gives too much food? I've been doing that in high corruption cities so that the city will become so huge it can support enough police to eek out a few shields despite the grotesque corruption.

Yes, that's true for high-Corruption cities. But closer to you core, that would just lose valuable Shields. The automated Workers don't understand that.

	08-02-2005 21:27									#28
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

See above post, slaves have higher opperutnity costs per amount done than normal workers.

Basic Economics.

quote: Originally posted by Cvetin Why dispose of the captured wokers? Keep them and get rid of the native workers as they cost maint.

	08-02-2005 22:09									#29
	Put an end to popups!

I have not sit down and calculated it out, but instinctively I would suspect that this "opportunity cost" is misleading.

I speak of games where you only get the first born as content. If you have 80 or more workers of slaves and natives and decide that you have 40 of your crew you do not need any longer.

Where are you going to stick them? If it is in a city that does not have all happy stuctures built you may not gain any value as you could force unhappiness or the need to build structures that are costly to build and maintain.

The cities that have all these already probably do not have room for more pop or very little anyway. Now if you are playing at say emperor you may have more cities with these structures, but as you move beyond that level, you are not likely to have many cities with them and in fact may have few with a hospital, if any.

So most cities will have no more than 12 pop and lots will not have aquas and be only size 6.

So to me you have point, but it is not universal and needs to be considered carefully before being applied.

In my games (mostly sid on huge maps), I will never add in foriegn workers. The above reason are a factor, but also I expect to have long periods of war with those civs and do not want any extra concerns with unhappy pop.

	08-02-2005 22:53									#30
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

do you ever win the sid games without having to fight tons of wars?