09-02-2005 19:18									#1
	MY 2159 Planning Thread Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

A support shifting suggestion:
Rehomethe GH hoplite in Sparta Command to Sparta Command.
Then move it to Gythium Harbour.
In return move the GH hoplite present in Gythium Harbour to SC1 and rehome it.

Result: two previously GH-homed units rehomed to Sparta Command. As a consequence GH support-free production rises to five. SC1 production is reduced to zero, with zero minerals in the production box. This makes SC1 the perfect base to convert crawlers into missile marines without any waste.
SC4 could fulfill the same purpose, though there there would be a one-time loss of 2 minerals.


As for what to do with the Fort Superior Colony Pod. How about one of the following two spots? Each has access to 2+ 2-nut tiles, so it won't starve.
How about calling it Ironholm, as it would be close to a mineral bonus and a few rocky tiles?

	09-02-2005 19:19									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Forgot the pic...

Attachment: ironholm2159.jpg
This has been downloaded 45 time(s).

	09-02-2005 19:29									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I prefer the yellow site, as it has better separation, and also can access that 2-3-1 forest mineral tile currently being worked by Arcadia

Presumably at size 3 with just 1 hoplite defender we'll have to put another hoplite in training there right off the bat as well as convert one of its 3 pops to a talent until we get a rec commons built (pity we can't buy an Ogre from Zak!!) or get police capability (that darned Int Int again!!)

And Ironholm sounds just right

	09-02-2005 19:31									#4
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The more northern spot (yellow) looks good to me.

Can we please kill that spore tower?

	09-02-2005 19:49									#5
	Got spare money?

I also prefer the yellow spot.

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Can we please kill that spore tower?

For that we could perhaps build another two hoplites and send them to flame the tower. After their mission is performed, they could go garrison bases and thereby free up Skanky's Sileni and Spartan Kel for offensive duties.

Btw, talking about "Spartan Kel", may I suggest renaming that unit design to 'Impact Infantry'? There are now two impact infantry units who are
a) not elite,
b) not Laconian (ie not trained in one of the bases on the Eurotas river) but Minas Tirithic,
so calling them Killer Elite Laconians is inaccurate.

	09-02-2005 21:04									#6
	Inflate your Upload Space

and save "Spartan Kel" for when we upgrade that specific unit to Plasma Missile (and, ultimately, Neutronium Shard)

	11-02-2005 18:32									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

2159 arrived and opened. Some early moves:

• Moved trannie into Great Collective Bay, and 1st probe team extracted Superconductor - he returned to Minas Tirith as Elite
  
• Called Lal, and got his updated maps (see Morgan below) and sold him Superconductor for 25 ec's
  
• Popped the pod with the SCC Invincible - got an instabuild of our 2NS Amphibious Missile Synthspeeder

Some Questions:

• Morgan has rushed the plasma hoverboat at Mussels - next turn it'll be in the second fungus tile to the west of the base (adjacent to where we anchor our invasion force this turn) - I'm assuming I have approval to upgrade the GeneralTacticus to Missile
  
• What to do with the Pegasus and the R-112
  
• the Disco Volante - proceed to Angel waters to infiltrate? or infiltrate those upstart Gaians first?
  
• 2nd probe team aboard the transport in Hive waters - both infiltrateable bases now have high security locks, reducing our chances of stealing maps to 66%. Proceed? Or leave the probe aboard and send the Minas Tirith Coastguard Cutter to shadow it and use that probe for gaian infiltration?

Morgania

	11-02-2005 18:48									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Googlie 2159 arrived and opened. Some early moves: Moved trannie into Great Collective Bay, and 1st probe team extracted Superconductor - he returned to Minas Tirith as Elite Called Lal, and got his updated maps (see Morgan below) and sold him Superconductor for 25 ec's Popped the pod with the SCC Invincible - got an instabuild of our 2NS Amphibious Missile Synthspeeder

Sounds great.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie 2nd probe team aboard the transport in Hive waters - both infiltrateable bases now have high security locks, reducing our chances of stealing maps to 66%. Proceed? Or leave the probe aboard and send the Minas Tirith Coastguard Cutter to shadow it and use that probe for gaian infiltration?

Can we get the maps from another Hive base (doesn't have to be quick)? If yes, then I would not risk losing a probe now.

We need to destroy anything before the raid, so we need that Missile upgrade. (My boys will thank you for the new toys upon their return. )

	11-02-2005 19:12									#9
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Additional moves and questions:

• 2Nuts supercrawler loaded onto slow Unity Trannie and moved north
  
• Mercury with the colony pod and hoplite continues south
  
• RT2 moved into Minas Tirith and shows the Hive attack force in the suburbs - will be engaged shortly
  
• The Hive has reinforced their lone unit
  
• Should the MT former place a road where it is - for ease of access/egress to/from MT?
  
• As those two Hive infantrymen will be destroyed by our MT forces, do we need yet to move the supercrawler?

Attachment: 2159-mt under attack.jpg
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

	11-02-2005 19:18									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Should the MT former place a road where it is - for ease of access/egress to/from MT?

Do you really need to ask? Of course it should. We might not need reinforcements now, but that bas is in war mode, so priority should be given to protecting it.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie As those two Hive infantrymen will be destroyed by our MT forces, do we need yet to move the supercrawler?

The question is, will it be safe unmoved? IF yes, then leave it alone.

	11-02-2005 19:19									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

2 Hive Impact synthmetal infantrymen removed from the suburbs of Minas Tirith

One of our Impact infantrymen took 50% damage (the Commando one) and the other (the hardened one) took 70%. No morale boosts as a result of winning their battles

	11-02-2005 19:30									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Modo44 Do you really need to ask? Of course it should. We might not need reinforcements now, but that bas is in war mode, so priority should be given to protecting it.

Well, the alternative would be a sensor array (for the defensive protection). It'll be an involuntary instabuild, as the former had almost completed a road to the mine, so it will have its workpoints stored, so I'm guessing it will instantly complete what we assign it to do ((using stored terraforming points as a strategy is forbidden in the rules, but these are involuntary actions - the alternative being to let the former sit and be destroyed.

quote: The question is, will it be safe unmoved? IF yes, then leave it alone.

trouble is, we don't know. It's too valuable to leave sitting there with the possibility that Hive units are creeping thru the fungus, ao I think we should move it north out of harm's way (plus, if we leave it there, we should move the former back to the mine to complete the road there it was so rudely interrupted in building (if we are saying we believe that mine site to be safe that'd be the action the Mods would enforce so as not to breach the rules, however involuntarily)

So I've talked myself into moving the crawler, but should the former build a road or a sensor array?

	11-02-2005 19:38									#13
	Remove this text

PTS task force now in position.

Morgan will send their plasma hoverboat out 2 tiles (the fungus will prevent them going any further) but won't see our force lurking in our fungus tile:

Attachment: pts task force in position.jpg
This has been downloaded 36 time(s).

Last edited by Googlie on 11-02-2005 at 19:48

	11-02-2005 19:39									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Alright then, the Crawler needs to move.

As to the Former, I always prefer to have a way of reinforcing a hot spot ASAP. I mean, a Radar is nice, but some bad luck on defense, and no Radar will help.

Last edited by Modo44 on 11-02-2005 at 19:45

	11-02-2005 20:56									#15
	Increase Your PM Length

Hey this is really looking great! There's very little they can do now to stop our raid, what with only one production phase between now and the landing.

That armoured rover at Argi Narnia is a hassle though. We'll need to upgrade at least one of our boys to missile to beat that without losing so much health that we loose MPs.

	11-02-2005 21:04									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

A pity we couldn't transport an elite probe team along. That could have killed the plasma probe rover easily.

Btw, regarding upgrading the SCC GeneralTacticus, are you sure it would be necessary? While a direct attack against plasma armour is indeed unlikely to succeed, don't forget the option of long range fire. I think Commando laser against green laser should win, even though our ship is 30% damaged.

Of course, upgrading the ship to missile isn't a bad move, but if I calculated it right, the cost would be 110 credits, and we currently don't really have an abundance of cash right now. Just something I thought I'd mention to take into calculation, in case we're considering other upgrades or hurry orders.

	11-02-2005 21:24									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, regarding upgrading the SCC GeneralTacticus, are you sure it would be necessary? While a direct attack against plasma armour is indeed unlikely to succeed, don't forget the option of long range fire. I think Commando laser against green laser should win, even though our ship is 30% damaged.

Maybe it would, maybe it would not. Can we take chances? I think not.

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Of course, upgrading the ship to missile isn't a bad move, but if I calculated it right, the cost would be 110 credits, and we currently don't really have an abundance of cash right now. Just something I thought I'd mention to take into calculation, in case we're considering other upgrades or hurry orders.

Normally, I would agree with you. But this raid is of such importance, I think we must do it. Like I said - I think we should carry this out at all costs.

	11-02-2005 21:54									#18
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Maniac Btw, regarding upgrading the SCC GeneralTacticus, are you sure it would be necessary? While a direct attack against plasma armour is indeed unlikely to succeed, don't forget the option of long range fire. I think Commando laser against green laser should win, even though our ship is 30% damaged. Of course, upgrading the ship to missile isn't a bad move, but if I calculated it right, the cost would be 110 credits, and we currently don't really have an abundance of cash right now. Just something I thought I'd mention to take into calculation, in case we're considering other upgrades or hurry orders.

110 credits is quite prohibitive. How about upgrading it to just impact? It would be sufficient to defeat their cannon-fodder of a foil but horribly inefficient if we want to upgrade it to missile later on anyway.

How many - if any - of the rovers are we upgrading to missile and how much does that cost? And how much do we have?

	11-02-2005 21:59									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen 110 credits is quite prohibitive. How about upgrading it to just impact? It would be sufficient to defeat their cannon-fodder of a foil but horribly inefficient if we want to upgrade it to missile later on anyway.

If it provides a high-enough chance of success for this paricular raid, we won't have to worry about being a little inefficient.

Could we test this attack in a separate simulation, to determine what is needed? Can we even afford the upgrade?

	11-02-2005 23:45									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

For the PTS raid, the Elite Impact Rovers suffice.

With the GeneralTacticus, I'm just paranoid that we'll be blocked by a partially damaged Morgan plasma-armored foil in the fungus channel and have no way of landing our rovers. It's imperitive that we destroy that foil.

I'll sim-test it before we spend any of our 219 credits

Last edited by Googlie on 11-02-2005 at 23:54

	11-02-2005 23:56									#21
	Support Apolyton

Zak has 101 credits. Do we want to zap him for a loan, extortion, or sell Superconductor to him before Lal does?

	12-02-2005 00:04									#22
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Do we want to tag-team those 2 CoasrGuard Cutters and go boink some Morgan heads? (ie, destroy forests, roads, crawlers, whatever we can see inland)

If not - just tag-team them and go cruisin'?

(Turquoise 1 is the slow trannie heading north with 2Nuts supercrawler; turquoise 2 is the Hermes heading south with the Colony Pod and scout towards the Manifold Nexus)

Attachment: 2159-tag team.jpg
This has been downloaded 28 time(s).

	12-02-2005 00:22									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Googlie For the PTS raid, the Elite Impact Rovers suffice.

But how about an expansion of the raid to extend to destroying Impaler Polymers and the HGP? What kind of defense can we expect the Morgans to mount?

We could hope to do more damage if we had a missile rover or two in that bunch. And with the Morgans going crazy over plasma garrisons I think we need to do all we can do with this opportunity.

quote: With the GeneralTacticus, I'm just paranoid that we'll be blocked by a partially damaged Morgan plasma-armored foil in the fungus channel and have no way of landing our rovers. It's imperitive that we destroy that foil. I'll sim-test it before we spend any of our 219 credits

Yes I agree, we need to upgrade it somehow.

There is another chance for a complete disaster, an IoD being awakened by either us or the Morgan foil. We wouldn't stand a chance against it standing in fungus, I should think.

	12-02-2005 00:43									#24
	Increase Your PM Length

OK - I've run the sims - good news/possible bad news

If they simply sail their foil one or two tiles west into the fungus, and the GT tries to enter that fungus square, encountering them, then a straight head-to-head naval encounetr would result in us losing the GT every time.

However, if we avoid the head-to-head, and instead activate long range fire, then we win every time (and get an upgrade to Elite half of the time)

However, if Morgan just sails one tile into the fungus, then on a hunch long-range-fires into our fungus hiding place, they'll kill the GT 60% of the time.

There's not much we can do about the latter, as being Missile armed doesn't help. Only being 100% fit, or plasma armored, helps.

Not much we can do now, as we're in our hiding place, and can't upgrade armor, so we just have to hope tbat they don't have that "hunch"

Also not much we can do about them disturbing an IoD, as we're there now anyway, and they turn before we do

Zip file contains 2 scenarios

The Sparta one lets you test the attack and long range fore from the GT on the morgan ship - open it as a sceanrio edit, then click on the top left sceanrio tab to de-activate the asceanrio, then it plays like a game

The Morgan one lets you play as Morgan (same opening procedure) and then test your "hunch" as to a vessel being in that fungus tile

Attachment: pts raidstart.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	12-02-2005 00:48									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Googlie However, if we avoid the head-to-head, and instead activate long range fire, then we win every time (and get an upgrade to Elite half of the time) However, if Morgan just sails one tile into the fungus, then on a hunch long-range-fires into our fungus hiding place, they'll kill the GT 60% of the time.

Strange. One would expect equal chances with long-range fire, no matter whether you're attacked or you attack.

Btw, do you have a midturn save?

	12-02-2005 01:13									#26
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'm confused, what numbers are used when fighting long range as compared to direct combat? I always thought long range was weapon against weapon.

	12-02-2005 01:18									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Me too.

	12-02-2005 03:08									#28
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Snoddasmannen But how about an expansion of the raid to extend to destroying Impaler Polymers and the HGP? What kind of defense can we expect the Morgans to mount? We could hope to do more damage if we had a missile rover or two in that bunch. And with the Morgans going crazy over plasma garrisons I think we need to do all we can do with this opportunity.

All valid points. But why bother now? We can do the same right after the raid, and gain some security by delaying the upgrade. Namely, if Morgan succeeds in some actions against our force, they would not get the Missile technology. Also, we will know better then, than we know now, if an upgrade is needed at all. Remember the distinct possibility of this being a kamikaze raid.

	12-02-2005 04:00									#29
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Moved trannie into Great Collective Bay, and 1st probe team extracted Superconductor - he returned to Minas Tirith as Elite

Just for information, did you extract it from Hole of Aspiration?

quote: 2nd probe team aboard the transport in Hive waters - both infiltrateable bases now have high security locks, reducing our chances of stealing maps to 66%. Proceed? Or leave the probe aboard and send the Minas Tirith Coastguard Cutter to shadow it and use that probe for gaian infiltration?

Personally I don't care that much whether or not we get the Hive map. Though personally I wouldn't send the SNC Heimdall + probe towards Gaia, as I think we could make better use of it right now by transporting troops to Minas Tirith (the new Olympian Spartan Kel unit with missile weapons) and later by invading Terrapeso.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Well, the alternative would be a sensor array (for the defensive protection). It'll be an involuntary instabuild, as the former had almost completed a road to the mine, so it will have its workpoints stored, so I'm guessing it will instantly complete what we assign it to do ((using stored terraforming points as a strategy is forbidden in the rules, but these are involuntary actions - the alternative being to let the former sit and be destroyed.

Just for the record, when I assign that former to build a sensor array, it takes the normal four turns. But I also have to add I've never been able to replicate "stored workpoints" like Googlie can.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Zak has 101 credits. Do we want to zap him for a loan, extortion, or sell Superconductor to him before Lal does?

If I extort Zak for cash, he gives us no less than 100 credits, leaving him only with one.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie Do we want to tag-team those 2 CoasrGuard Cutters and go boink some Morgan heads? (ie, destroy forests, roads, crawlers, whatever we can see inland)

Tagteaming is good - it'll be protect them against mindcontrol.

While the Vladivostokian coastguard is moving west, how about the laser cruiser moves to the tile N-NE of Paramiria and bombards the base with its last MP? It of course won't do much damage, but who knows it'll make Morgan think we're planning to invade that base, and send some reinforcements to there instead of Morgan Mussels.


Btw, will Pegasus move southeast to where the Gaian coast must be, to pop any pods in range there?

	12-02-2005 06:44									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

Firstly - here's the midturn save up to the flurry of posts about 3 hours ago

Next - some answers to posed questions:

The infiltration was indeed at HoA (we have already used Great Collective as a superstore, so Yang increased the security of the locks there)

Moving the 'Peg towards Gaian lands with a Commando Impact Speeder might be considered a tad hostile if found - No?

Hmm - I too just get a partial roadbuild when I assign that former to a road. I thought that as we'd moved it from almost completing a mine road that it'd be an instabuild.

I'll post the subsequent moves next

Attachment: acdg3-2159mid.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).