10-02-2005 12:25									#1
	It's official: Dear Leader has nukes Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Reuters and AP are apparently both reporting the claim.

NKorea Says Made Nuke Weapons, Shuns 6-Way Talks

quote: TOKYO (Reuters) - North Korea said on Thursday that it had manufactured nuclear weapons for its self-defense and was suspending participation in six-way talks on its atomic arms program for an "indefinite period." Washington has recently stepped up its efforts to revive the six-party talks, sending an envoy to the region last week with letters for Chinese President Hu Jintao, South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun and Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi. In North Korea's clearest statement yet that it already possesses nuclear arms, the official KCNA news agency quoted a Foreign Ministry spokesman as saying: "We had already taken the resolute action of pulling out of the NPT (Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty) and have manufactured nukes to cope with the Bush administration's evermore undisguised policy to isolate and stifle the DPRK (North Korea). "Its nuclear weapons will remain nuclear deterrent for self-defense under any circumstances," the statement added. U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton told reporters earlier in the day that Washington was ready to resume the talks at any time. But KCNA said Pyongyang saw no reason to take part now. "We have wanted the six-party talks but we are compelled to suspend our participation in the talks for an indefinite period till we have recognized that there is justification for us to attend the talks and there are ample conditions and atmosphere to expect positive results from the talks," the spokesman was quoted as saying. "The Bush administration termed the DPRK, its dialogue partner, an outpost of tyranny, putting into the shade its hostile policy, and totally rejected it," the spokesman said. "This deprived the DPRK of any justification to participate in the six-party talks," the spokesman added. The United States, China, South Korea, Japan and Russia have held three rounds of talks with North Korea since August 2003 and have been trying to coax Pyongyang back to the negotiations. Diplomatic analysts had said Pyongyang wanted to see how President Bush's policy toward North Korea shaped up with the start of his second term, and had pointed to late February or early March as the possible timing for a fresh round. © Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

Aggie's point in Sava's thread may get some indisputable backing out of this.

	10-02-2005 12:27									#2
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For the umpteenth time they've said they have...

	10-02-2005 12:28									#3
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**** has hit the fan!!!!!!

	10-02-2005 12:29									#4
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Hold judgement until they provide verifiable proof, preferably not in the form of a mushroom cloud...

	10-02-2005 12:30									#5
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It's been known they have had them for some time.

	10-02-2005 12:31									#6
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Well, I think that they are pulling out of talks and also the nonproliferation treaty is a big development.

	10-02-2005 12:35									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi It's been known they have had them for some time.

[TROLL]
Like Iraq?
[/TROLL]

Seriously, I know NK likely has the ability to start making nukes, if they haven't already, but they seem to keep announcing it as if it was the first time they've announced it.

	10-02-2005 12:38									#8
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**shrug** North Korea is — or was, if they already have 'em — hellbent on getting nuclear weapons, and it isn't just because of Bush. The bastards, after all, broke the terms of an agreement that went into effect when Clinton was in office.

They're about to find out nukes won't help them any, unless being further isolated is considered helpful in their eyes (you never know with Kim). Unless they start giving the know-how (or, worse, working nukes) to terror groups and whatnot, then the **** could really hit the fan. Would you trust NK to stick to the terms of yet another non-proliferation agreement in the future? Based on past history, I'd be iffy about it at best.

Sucks to be Japan and South Korea right now. Then again, maybe not. After all, both countries knew this was coming for years now.

Now if only America could get a missile defense shield that actually worked.

Gatekeeper

	10-02-2005 13:11									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker **** has hit the fan!!!!!!

It's Bush's Fault!

	10-02-2005 13:14									#10
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I thought they'd admitted to nukes before, and CIA says 5or 6??

Is this going to be one of those yes we do....no we don't...yes we do....maybe we do...kind of north korean statements?

Even during the Clinton Period?

	10-02-2005 13:30									#11
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From what I remember, they're previously made very strong allusions to having nukes, but this is the first time they've just straight up front said "we've got nukes".

	10-02-2005 13:35									#12
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Whoah..didn't read they were pulling out of the talks...

That will (Hopefully) be a major blow to the Sunshine Policy, and that's a good thing because it will result in less reason to be nasty to NK refugees and help them.

Still I wonder what this will mean 'on the ground' given how far the various economic projects have gone...

	10-02-2005 15:51									#13
	North Korea steps to the plate Support Apolyton

It is their country but our WORLD I wish no one had Nuclear Weapons, so what should a country do?

anything?

I dont believe we are as strong a world in these matters as we once were. I wonder if the world would go all the way to Armegeddon to prove its point?

What say ye in these matters?

Gramps

	10-02-2005 15:56									#14
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It is up to SK, Japan, and China. They have to live with the psycho.

	10-02-2005 15:59									#15
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It is up to SK, Japan, and China. They have to live with the psycho.

Actually, when the ball gets dropped we all will..

its a shame

I just wonder if this is tough talk or is this the fight the world has been leading up to for a long time

Nukes..they reach out and touch someone...shame pure shame

	10-02-2005 16:04									#16
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It's not like he can bake the Midwest. He can bake Honshu. That is why it is more of an issue for China and Japan to solve. American help would be greatly appreciated, I am sure, but you Yanks can't make people do things they aren't ready to do for themselves.

	10-02-2005 16:08									#17
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither It's not like he can bake the Midwest. He can bake Honshu. That is why it is more of an issue for China and Japan to solve. American help would be greatly appreciated, I am sure, but you Yanks can't make people do things they aren't ready to do for themselves.

Two points:


#1-Nukes cannot be loaded on planes-subs and ships?

#2-This is not necessarily a "Yanks" event..I was speaking about the world in general versus the USA

BUT you may have hit a valid point, will it take the USA to be the lead dawg in the hunt to bring up other countries?

Just wondering is all

	10-02-2005 16:13									#18
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It is a global problem, but it is much more personal for China, SK, and Japan. That is why I think we should respect their wishes if possible. They will have to wear the fall out.

	10-02-2005 16:27									#19
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That's what happens when the world / the UN leaves dictators alone for too long.

One day Iran will have one too. Fortunately we're sure that Iraq won't have one in the near future.
Oh well, in 40 years about every wannabe cool-dictator has a nuke anyway.

	10-02-2005 16:28									#20
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This is good for World peace. Now no one will invade them. Let's just hope for some reforms in their domestic politics, and everything will be fine.

	10-02-2005 16:39									#21
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Finally some indication that Communism works. Now let's wait another 60 years and see if they can feed their own people.

	10-02-2005 16:54									#22
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Communism doesn't work, but nukes do

	10-02-2005 16:54									#23
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This just proves that if we were going to take preemptive action, we should have done back in the Clinton Admin when NK did not have nukes yet. Now it is too late.

Now, we basically have to acknowledge their nuke arsenal and/or isolate them economically and diplomatically and hope we can starve them out.

Basically, we are royally screwed thanks to Clinton's incompetent foreign policy.

	10-02-2005 16:56									#24
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In what way are you screwed? Now they can mind their business and you can mind your's.

	10-02-2005 17:06									#25
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I'd hope so. But NK really hasn't been under threat like they claim. There has been no bulild up of troops or military units, quite the opposite actually. The few statements made by the Bush administration are hardly enough to consider your country under constant threat of attack. If that was the case, Japan is justified in a preemptive strike on China or NK, and Taiwan should be clamoring for nukes.

Most countries want to maintain the status quo. SK tried to improve relations gradually with the "Sunshine Policy", but NK just took the gifts and didn't hold up their end. NK doesn't need nukes to protect itself. The scary thing is, what do they want to do with them?

	10-02-2005 17:11									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie In what way are you screwed? Now they can mind their business and you can mind your's.

We are screwed because it is not good for a rogue state to have nukes. NK can sell nukes to other rogue states like Iran, or to terrorist groups. NK could also think military action against SK more attractive if they think nukes makes them immune to retaliation. Or they could just use nukes to blackmail us into givem the economic aid they need or to force SK to reunify. The bottom line is that we don't know what NK will do with nuclear weapons and that's what is so scary.

I think we should offer nuclear weapons to South Korea. If both NK and SK had nukes, then there would be a balance of power and neither side would dare use the weapon.

	10-02-2005 17:13									#27
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Japan as well. They are just as likely targets. "Sea of fire."

	10-02-2005 17:13									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie In what way are you screwed? Now they can mind their business and you can mind your's.

We're not screwed yet, but the people of NK are, since no-one will help them now.
And one day one maniac will use nukes.
Pherhaps not Kim, pherhaps not those dudes in Iran, pherhaps not OBL. But one day one maniac will use nukes.

And I'm with GWB to make sure that that moment will be as far away from us as possible. I'm happy that SH won't be able to use nukes. I'd rather be wrong in the GWB way, then in the UN way.

Thanks UN, for waiting long enough to give Kim his nukes! Now let's see if we can wait long enough to give the ayotola's in Iran some! They'll love it!

	10-02-2005 17:52									#29
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I have merged two threads, so the order of messages may be a bit wacky.

	10-02-2005 18:42									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper **shrug** North Korea is — or was, if they already have 'em — hellbent on getting nuclear weapons, and it isn't just because of Bush. The bastards, after all, broke the terms of an agreement that went into effect when Clinton was in office.

No they didn't. They agreed to stop plutonium processing and researching plutonium bombs, which they did, until Bush's announcement in 2001 that they weren't going to continue working with the DPRK and then the 2002 SoU speech. What the DPRK did do, was switch to uranium enhancement and researching uranium bombs, which is slower, and was not covered by the agreement with the Clinton administration.

I might have the metals backwards, but the point is, the agreement only covered one process, not both. The slower one wasn't in the agreement, presumably in order for the DPRK to continue to have something to negotiate with when dealing with the U.S.