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Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 12:16
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quote:
It just didn't make sense -- I was referring to the Bill Gates BSOD.


There wasn't one in the demo I watched (the recent one that everyone was talking about - the thing just didn't work).

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 16:30
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Actually that Jobs video was quite convincing. Os X seems to be light years away from Windows when in comes to cool new features, innovation, usability and the features he showcased simply look amazing and really professional. I think my next computer will be Mac. I was seriously impressed.

Go Mac!

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:02
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quote:
Actually that Jobs video was quite convincing. Os X seems to be light years away from Windows when in comes to cool new features, innovation, usability and the features he showcased simply look amazing and really professional.


I agree.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:12 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by laurentius
Actually that Jobs video was quite convincing. Os X seems to be light years away from Windows when in comes to cool new features, innovation, usability and the features he showcased simply look amazing and really professional. I think my next computer will be Mac. I was seriously impressed.

You were impressed when comparing an OS that will come out in 2005 versus and OS that came out in 2001?

Jobs is an excellent salesman -- count how many times he said "phenomenal" or similar adjectives, and things like "isn't that amazing? isn't this incredible? wow!". It's the same pitch you get from used car salesmen.

People willingly watch an hour-long sales pitch and buy into it. The man can seduce his crowds. The crowd cheered when OS X locked up and he switched to the backup system.

Some of the stuff OS X is doing is cool on the surface.

Most of the stuff shown by Apple is something everyone is getting in their future OSes.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:16
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quote:
You were impressed when comparing an OS that will come out in 2005 versus and OS that came out in 2001?


But aren't you the person who keeps saying that Microsoft gives away updates for free while Apple makes you pay for them?

So Tiger will be competing with SP2.

quote:
Jobs is an excellent salesman -- count how many times he said "phenomenal" or similar adjectives, and things like "isn't that amazing? isn't this incredible? wow!".


As opposed to Microsoft demos. "Crap-ass"; "Doesn't this suck? Isn't this lame?"

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:23 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
But aren't you the person who keeps saying that Microsoft gives away updates for free while Apple makes you pay for them?

So Tiger will be competing with SP2.

Tiger will be competing with Longhorn.

SP2 competes with Panther.

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher

You were impressed when comparing an OS that will come out in 2005 versus and OS that came out in 2001?

Jobs is an excellent salesman -- count how many times he said "phenomenal" or similar adjectives, and things like "isn't that amazing? isn't this incredible? wow!". It's the same pitch you get from used car salesmen.

People willingly watch an hour-long sales pitch and buy into it. The man can seduce his crowds. The crowd cheered when OS X locked up and he switched to the backup system.

Some of the stuff OS X is doing is cool on the surface.

Most of the stuff shown by Apple is something everyone is getting in their future OSes.


I was impressed that company so much smaller than MS can roll out incredible software like showcased. I did notice the "awesome" "phenomenal" and the "and boom its there" wich started get annyoing pretty fast but still OS X with its iLife, the search etc software just blew me off. Also the constant cheering and applauding only feeded the image of a caricatyrical machead crowd. Still OS X is here now, Longhorn wont be here in a long time. I love how SJ uses the same philosophy he used with NeXT. Windows feels like a bloated piece of visual basic after seeing Tiger. Simply amazing...

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:31 Visit Asher's homepage!
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What blew you away about Tiger?

And of course a "smaller" company like Apple can roll out "incredible software" like iLife -- MS may be a larger company by far, but they compete in far more markets with far more products.

MS doesn't have the same "I'm gonna show you cool stuff now!" style when announcing products, and maybe they should. It obviously wins over some people.

I really love how iPhoto can now do things Picasa has always done, and it got a huge cheer frm the crowd. Or the "new features" in QuickTime 7, like an overlay control while in fullscreen...or more than 2-channel audio...stuff that's been in WMP for I-don't-know-how-long... or the ability to make hierarchical folders/albums in iPhoto...

Or the total stupidity behind the iPhoto Albums, which I honestly doubt anyone uses except for a handful of people. Interesting he didn't have sales statistics for those.

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
What blew you away about Tiger?

And of course a "smaller" company like Apple can roll out "incredible software" like iLife -- MS may be a larger company by far, but they compete in far more markets with far more products.

MS doesn't have the same "I'm gonna show you cool stuff now!" style when announcing products, and maybe they should. It obviously wins over some people.

I really love how iPhoto can now do things Picasa has always done, and it got a huge cheer frm the crowd. Or the "new features" in QuickTime 7, like an overlay control while in fullscreen...or more than 2-channel audio...stuff that's been in WMP for I-don't-know-how-long... or the ability to make hierarchical folders/albums in iPhoto...

Or the total stupidity behind the iPhoto Albums, which I honestly doubt anyone uses except for a handful of people. Interesting he didn't have sales statistics for those.


Tiger appeared to be at the same time extremely disciplined and organised and surprisingly laid back. You dont for example need to organise your documents, pictures etc strickly into hierachical folders, it doesnt matter if you just threw them up somewhere, you can still find it instantly with the Spotlight.

The dashboard was very nice and the overall sleekness how everything works is just amazing, and the neat graphical effects only make it look more cool. iChat - wow. Garageband -

The only thing that didnt impress me much was the QT 7 to wich I hold permanent grudge at due to QTs horrible performance on Win XP and the annoying way it ALWAYS asks if I'd like to upgrade

Overall:

Mac

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:50
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Laurentius - the cool thing about Garageband is that anyone can make something that sounds cool.


Whack together a few loops, hit record and start singing, and you instantly have an mp3 serenade to send to your girlfriend.

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:50
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Put an end to popups!

I even joined a new civgroup


Agathon: yeah I only wish I had a Mac....or money for one

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:59 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by laurentius
Tiger appeared to be at the same time extremely disciplined and organised and surprisingly laid back. You dont for example need to organise your documents, pictures etc strickly into hierachical folders, it doesnt matter if you just threw them up somewhere, you can still find it instantly with the Spotlight.

But that's the thing -- Spotlight is MSN Desktop Search. The only thing it has up on MSN Desktop Search is apps can expect it to always be on the computer, so they can integrate it into their own apps (so you can use it inside other apps). MS would love to do this, but they're not allowed to bundle MSN Desktop Search on the computer.

What is important IMO, is how Spotlight and these Desktop Search things are all hacks. You still have a hierarchical file system, and it only supports basic keyword matching.

WinFS -- whenever it'll come out -- is a full-out database. Hierarchies are there if you want to use them, but that's not how the data is actually stored. You can search your computer just like you would an SQL server...

You know like how labels work in Gmail, virtual folders in Outlook (and the ripoff feature coming in Apple's new mail client in Tiger)? It's like that. But for every file across your computer.

quote:
The dashboard was very nice and the overall sleekness how everything works is just amazing, and the neat graphical effects only make it look more cool. iChat - wow. Garageband -

iChat's video chat effect was definitely cool looking.

What wasn't cool looking was the terrible audio quality that cut out a few times (and this is under optimal conditions at a demo), and still blocky video. He talks about how awesome it is they're using H.264 as the codec, but what he doesn't mention is H.264 and its kin are only really good when it can read ahead 10-30 frames and see what's coming. Otherwise it's actually rather crap as a codec.

And seeing as it's impossible to see the future, the quality is kinda lacking in a video conference.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:24
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quote:
Agathon: yeah I only wish I had a Mac....or money for one


Mac mini. $500. Get a KVM switch and you're set.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:56
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And in further testament to the quality of MS products, I just went to the supermarket to buy lunch, and the computer at the checkout BSODed.

Windows.

laurentius is offline laurentius
King
Helsinki, Finland
Jun 2001
time: 07:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
quote:
Agathon: yeah I only wish I had a Mac....or money for one


Mac mini. $500. Get a KVM switch and you're set.
I dont own any kind display or keyboard other than mi laptop. And dont have much money now that I've spend all the govt. student subsidies on art and booze...

But getting mac is a good reason to get a job.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:00
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Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Art and booze.

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 08:57
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I checked out the laptops at Best Buy. Unfortunately, all of them had some kind of Best Buy garbage on it that only let you watch advertising and "look how neat this is" videos, so I couldn't get a feel for how it responded, or how the speakers sounded, or really see the display. They also had various security devices installed, and most had the battery removed, so it was impossible to weigh them, see how heavy they were, etc.

They had Toshiba, Sony, Compaq/HP, and Gateway, no Dell, no IBM. Very disappointing experience, and one that makes me less likely to buy a laptop from Best Buy.

Now, I've had Compaq PCs in the past and really don't have any plans to buy from them in the future, as general consensus seems to be they have gone downhill with their products.

How good is Gateway? Do they have a known history for good/bad computers?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
That Inspiron 700M spanks the PowerBook in every conceivable way...


Untrue.

The Inspiron comes with XP Home, that means it automatically sucks at networking and user management.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 11:56 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Untrue.

The Inspiron comes with XP Home, that means it automatically sucks at networking and user management.



What kind of network functionality is missing from XP Home that the average user needs? Ditto for user management?

You need to get real...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:25
  Old Post 13-02-2005 08:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher


What kind of network functionality is missing from XP Home that the average user needs? Ditto for user management?

You need to get real...


You need to get real. Sop defending unexcusable MS behaviour.

The latest one is creating an OS full of holes, then starts selling an anti-virus/anti-spyware program.

The humanity.

Besides, you made a stupid assertion and I refuted it. Now live with your own mistakes.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:25
  Old Post 13-02-2005 23:23 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You need to get real. Sop defending unexcusable MS behaviour.

The latest one is creating an OS full of holes, then starts selling an anti-virus/anti-spyware program.

The humanity.

Besides, you made a stupid assertion and I refuted it. Now live with your own mistakes.

You didn't refute it, you didn't even answer the question...

What kind of network functionality is missing from XP Home that the average user needs? Ditto for user management?

It's not refuting it calling it "undefensable behavior", while you skirt around the very issue. You need to get real.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 13-02-2005 23:39
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can the X-series run linux?

I am in the mode for laptop buying also

I am also impresed by the powerbook, but I don't think I would ge tone until the G5 comes out

I also like the x-series by IBM

I have seen too much that Dells are hit or miss

maybe I should check out Toshiba again

Jon miller
(price really isn't an issue, but would like the cheapest of course)

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 13-02-2005 23:45
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http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c...67&ccid=1291022

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c...67&ccid=1291022

http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/s...=-840&langId=-1

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APP...1.1.1.1.0.0.1.0

JM

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 13-02-2005 23:46
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I like the protege

it would be cool to be able to write down physics equations and stuff on the computer (can it do that??)

Jon Miller

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 14-02-2005 00:45
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the toshiba is the most expensice, the apple is the least expensive...

I don't require that high of performance.... (of course I want the best offer I can get)

Jon Miller

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
universal city tx
Jan 2005
time: 23:25
  Old Post 14-02-2005 00:47
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I can say stay away from the hp compaq presario i got the 2200 model and have had nothing but trouble with it and its only 3 months old.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 14-02-2005 01:05
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Ditto for user management?


Are you guys are talking about user accounts here? User accounts are way too limited in XP Home. For example, I couln't play a single game in my user account, I had to log in my administrative account to do so. Dito for other programs like Winamp. I got fed up and erased my user account.

Now that I have XP pro, maybe I'll try to set up a user account again.

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 14-02-2005 01:12
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quote:
I like the protege

it would be cool to be able to write down physics equations and stuff on the computer (can it do that??)


You mean write them down directly on the screen? Yes, you can do that with the M200, it's a tablet pc after all.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 14-02-2005 01:18
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and than have them enter into mathematica or maple or some publishing software like latex or word?

JM

nostromo is offline nostromo
Prince
Montréal, Québec
Mar 2002
time: 00:25
  Old Post 14-02-2005 01:33
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That I don't know. I know that Windows XP tablet pc edition converts handwritten text to typed text. And I know it's integrated with recent versions of Word. Of course, the technology isn't perfect, so it makes errors. Maybe you should check out the Windows XP tablet PC edition site for more info.

 
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