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MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:08
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Put an end to popups!

good legislation

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
Bored of this board
Jan 2002
time: 06:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:26
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One suggestion by Bush I would support. The "sue system" was one of the few things I hated about USA even back when I was a big US fan. The system favors people who pretend to be idiots who are not responsible for their own actions. Things like getting "a billion dollars damage" for spilling coffe in your lap (it was 3 degrees too hot) or microwaving your dog (there was nothing about that in the manual).

The Mad Monk is offline The Mad Monk
Emperor
of Ice Cream
Mar 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:36
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quote:
It's a good bill. A national class action suit belongs in the federal courts. They didn't belong in a jurisdiction which only became eligible by the fact that a single product might have been sold in that county.




Imran, how is it that these suits haven't been covered by the interstate commerce clause?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 02:50
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I wasn't sure that filing a lawsuit counts as 'commerce' .

The only commerce involved is the lawyer representing the class, and they are regulate that under the ICC, but the actual suit? Nah.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 04:43 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Things like getting "a billion dollars damage" for spilling coffe in your lap (it was 3 degrees too hot)


When the company had over 750 previous complaints of the coffee being so hot that it was burning people and that the person reeived 2nd and 3rd degree burns on her genitals because she couldn't rip her clothing off fast enough, yeah, I think a major judgement was warranted. Just because the woman was in her 50s doesn't mean she was never going to have sex again. Now she has scar tissue where she should have nerve endings. It is the company's responsibility to serve a safe product, and not one which will cause injuries even when used as intended (if drunk immediately it will cause burns in the mouth).

Ming is offline Ming
Chief Minion

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Mingapulco - CST
Jan 1970
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:00 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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If she hadn't put the cup in her lap while driving her car, she wouldn't have spilled it in her lap and burned herself.

Yeah... the coffee was too hot, but I hate seeing morons like that get a cent. Drinking a too hot cup of coffee and burning your mouth is one thing... being an idiot by putting it between your legs while driving a car is another

Chemical Ollie is offline Chemical Ollie
Prince
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Jan 2002
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:10
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Suing tobacco companies for giving you cancer

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I wasn't sure that filing a lawsuit counts as 'commerce' .

The only commerce involved is the lawyer representing the class, and they are regulate that under the ICC, but the actual suit? Nah.


Haven't you heard? Somewhere, somehow, it may have some effect on interstate commerce ergo the federal government has complete and total license to regulate every aspect of it.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
If she hadn't put the cup in her lap while driving her car, she wouldn't have spilled it in her lap and burned herself.

Yeah... the coffee was too hot, but I hate seeing morons like that get a cent. Drinking a too hot cup of coffee and burning your mouth is one thing... being an idiot by putting it between your legs while driving a car is another


Technically, in the stated case, the woman's grandson was driving.

And Che? If you're telling me that the chain itself, consisting of 6,000 restaurants in the US, representing $1.3 million in coffee sales alone each day (an average of 450 per US restaurant per day) has received a total of 750 complaints over a decade that the coffee was too hot... well, that ain't ****. They likely received more complaints about the quality of the McRib in the month following its introduction than they received about the "too-hot" coffee over the decade prior to the case.

She was also 79 (not in her 50's as you claimed). Not that that matters, but it helps to get your facts right when making your case.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:39
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stop bringing reality into this, JohnT

orange is offline orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:48 Visit orange's homepage!
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Wait a minute....I go away for a year and Imran's a leftist?!

JohnT is offline JohnT

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Capitalist
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:50
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Of course, the fact that coffee experts claim that the best brewing temperature for coffee is 96-98 C (195-205 F), means that McDonalds isn't making their coffee too hot... the other restaurants are serving it too cold!

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
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Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
Wait a minute....I go away for a year and Imran's a leftist?!


Oh, no. This complaint is hitting him in his (or his future partners') wallets. Hence the "rage".

orange is offline orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 05:58 Visit orange's homepage!
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There's a lot of Bush-slamming going on in his posts though...?

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 06:00
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It helps him be considered "cool" around these here parts.

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 06:52
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yeah Imran is awesome

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 12-02-2005 07:14
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See?

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 07:14
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Imran

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 07:16
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See?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 07:24
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Ensign - Yea - No suprise there
Reid - Nay - No suprise there

PLATO is offline PLATO

King
Of the occupied South
Dec 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 09:01
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
Wait a minute....I go away for a year and Imran's a leftist?!


He is a card carrying member of the ACLU now...

notyoueither is offline notyoueither
Deity
of naught
Aug 2001
time: 22:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 09:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


And it is Florida's right to set up plaintiff friendly laws. If the companies don't like it, don't do business there (then you won't have members of the class from Florida).


That's absurd. It is tail wagging the dog.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 09:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming
If she hadn't put the cup in her lap while driving her car, she wouldn't have spilled it in her lap and burned herself.


She wasn't driving. She was parked whn it happened. She put the coffee in her lap to adjust something and the car slipped. Had the cofee been a drinkable temperature, it would not have burned her. By selling her a defective product, they caused her to harm herself.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 09:35 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnT
Of course, the fact that coffee experts claim that the best brewing temperature


Brewing temperature isn't serving temperature.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 10:08
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quote:
Originally posted by PLATO


He is a card carrying member of the ACLU now...


ACLU = GOOD

tort reform = GOOD

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 10:10
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quote:
Suprised by Obama's vote.


I'm not. Obama actually seems to have a brain in his head, which probably doesn't sit too well with you. Looks like you'll have to keep turning to Barbara Boxer for braindead, knee-jerk leftism...

Good legislation, BTW. Class action suits have been out of hand for a while now.

VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 10:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Chemical Ollie
Suing tobacco companies for giving you cancer

Huh?

Let's just forget that tobacco co's were the only ones who knew back in the 50s that their products caused cancer, but they willingly hid it from the society, mythologised it as part of the 'American lifestyle', and didn't get caught until decades later. Do the people who got addicted and had cancer while there still was no credible information about the diseases which cigarettes causes because the co's hid it deserve compensation? I say YES.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 12:05
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Oh, as for the McDonalds story, so many myths have floated around it is ridiculous. McDonalds had been constantly warned about the heat of its coffee, which was served at such a high level because the beans were inferior (it was meant to hide that). Also the woman suffered 3rd degree burns and she only sued for her hospital bills. The million dollars+ were punitives (ie, a way for private parties to engage in deterrence against companies). That award was reduced on appeal to about $480,000.

Here is some info about the case:

http://www.centerjd.org/free/mythbu...B_mcdonalds.htm

quote:


Stella Liebeck, 79 years old, was sitting in the passenger seat of her grandson’s car having purchased a cup of McDonald’s coffee. After the car stopped, she tried to hold the cup securely between her knees while removing the lid. However, the cup tipped over, pouring scalding hot coffee onto her. She received third-degree burns over 16 percent of her body, necessitating hospitalization for eight days, whirlpool treatment for debridement of her wounds, skin grafting, scarring, and disability for more than two years. Morgan, The Recorder, September 30, 1994. Despite these extensive injuries, she offered to settle with McDonald’s for $20,000. However, McDonald’s refused to settle. The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages -- reduced to $160,000 because the jury found her 20 percent at fault -- and $2.7 million in punitive damages for McDonald’s callous conduct. (To put this in perspective, McDonald's revenue from coffee sales alone is in excess of $1.3 million a day.) The trial judge reduced the punitive damages to $480,000. Subsequently, the parties entered a post-verdict settlement. According to Stella Liebeck’s attorney, S. Reed Morgan, the jury heard the following evidence in the case:

1. By corporate specifications, McDonald's sells its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit;

2. Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns (the skin is burned away down to the muscle/fatty-tissue layer) in two to seven seconds;

3. Third-degree burns do not heal without skin grafting, debridement and whirlpool treatments that cost tens of thousands of dollars and result in permanent disfigurement, extreme pain and disability of the victim for many months, and in some cases, years;

4. The chairman of the department of mechanical engineering and bio-mechanical engineering at the University of Texas testified that this risk of harm is unacceptable, as did a widely recognized expert on burns, the editor in chief of the leading scholarly publication in the specialty, the Journal of Burn Care and Rehabilitation;

5. McDonald's admitted that it has known about the risk of serious burns from its scalding hot coffee for more than 10 years -- the risk was brought to its attention through numerous other claims and suits, to no avail;

6. From 1982 to 1992, McDonald's coffee burned more than 700 people, many receiving severe burns to the genital area, perineum, inner thighs, and buttocks;

7. Not only men and women, but also children and infants, have been burned by McDonald's scalding hot coffee, in some instances due to inadvertent spillage by McDonald's employees;

8. At least one woman had coffee dropped in her lap through the service window, causing third-degree burns to her inner thighs and other sensitive areas, which resulted in disability for years;

9. Witnesses for McDonald's admitted in court that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald's required temperature;

10. McDonald's admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;

11. McDonald's witnesses testified that it did not intend to turn down the heat -- As one witness put it: “No, there is no current plan to change the procedure that we're using in that regard right now;”

12. McDonald's admitted that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;

13. Liebeck's treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.

Morgan, The Recorder, September 30, 1994. Moreover, the Shriner’s Burn Institute in Cincinnati had published warnings to the franchise food industry that its members were unnecessarily causing serious scald burns by serving beverages above 130 degrees Fahrenheit.

In refusing to grant a new trial in the case, Judge Robert Scott called McDonald's behavior “callous.” Moreover, “the day after the verdict, the news media documented that coffee at the McDonald's in Albuquerque [where Liebeck was burned] is now sold at 158 degrees. This will cause third-degree burns in about 60 seconds, rather than in two to seven seconds [so that], the margin of safety has been increased as a direct consequence of this verdict.” Id.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 12:06
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quote:
Originally posted by MRT144
ACLU = GOOD

tort reform = GOOD


damage caps = BAD

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by orange
Wait a minute....I go away for a year and Imran's a leftist?!


Moderate... because of the idiot in charge of the US, I'm seriously considering being a Democrat. There is no room in the Republican party for moderates anymore.

 
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