Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Ack! Bush tries to curb class actions suits!
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
20.Sep: FOURTH CHAPTER IN `HISTORY OF...` PUBLISHED
13.Sep: NEWS ON THE FLY
06.Sep: APOLYTON DONATES TO HURRICANE RELIEF

bottom of page
   - CIVILIZATION 3 $9.99 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $6.95 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $4.25 - ALPHA CENTAURI + ALIEN CROSSFIRE (laptop collection) from $19.99 - ALPHA CENTAURI PC $9.99 -->
Author
Thread   
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4     >> ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 21:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Ack! Bush tries to curb class actions suits! Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Why is this man so horrible?! I mean, I can maybe see why some would be for damage caps (maybe), but curbing class action lawsuits?! How else are individuals who have been harmed by a big corporation, but don't have the money themselves for a long suit going to get relief?! Class action suits have nailed a lot of the worst practices by companies (faulty automobiles to name one!)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/11/p...artner=homepage

quote:
Senate Approves Measure to Curb Big Class Actions
By STEPHEN LABATON

WASHINGTON, Feb. 10 - Handing President Bush a significant victory, the Senate overwhelmingly approved a measure on Thursday that would sharply limit the ability of people to file class-action lawsuits against companies.

The measure, adopted 72 to 26, now heads to the House of Representatives, where Republican leaders say it will be approved next week and sent to the White House for Mr. Bush's signature.

The measure would prohibit state courts from hearing many kinds of cases they now consider, transferring them to federal courts. Experts say many cases will wind up not being brought because federal judges have been constrained by a series of legal precedents from considering large class actions that involve varying laws of different states.

The legislation also makes it more difficult for class-action lawsuits to be settled by payments of coupons for goods and services instead of cash by the defendants, a practice that has been heavily criticized by Democrats and Republicans.

The measure does not affect pending cases.

Mr. Bush issued a statement praising the vote, his first legislative victory of his second term.

"Our country depends on a fair legal system that protects people who have been harmed without encouraging junk lawsuits that undermine confidence in our courts while hurting our economy, costing jobs and threatening small businesses," the president said. "The class-action bill is a strong step forward in our efforts to reform the litigation system and keep America the best place in the world to do business."

The legislation has long been promoted by large and small businesses, particularly manufacturers and insurance companies, and failed by a single vote in the Senate in 2003. It could have an especially significant effect on cases involving accusations of defective products, like drugs and cars; plaintiffs in such cases have had success in bringing large class actions in state courts. Automakers and drug makers have worked for years with manufacturers and insurers to press Congress to adopt the bill.

The business groups have asserted that the legislation is necessary to curtail frivolous litigation that benefits lawyers more than plaintiffs. They have said it is important to eliminate the unfair practice of lawyers' shopping for state courts that were more favorable to plaintiffs.

"This is a modest bill which will help reform a class-action regime that many times serves no one but the lawyers who bring these class-action lawsuits," said Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, who was the chief sponsor of the measure and who introduced a version of it eight years ago. "Out-of-control frivolous filings are a real drag on the economy. Many a good business is being hurt by these frivolous claims."

But the measure has been attacked by civil rights organizations, labor groups, consumer organizations, many state prosecutors and environmental groups, who say it would sharply curtail important cases and provide new protections for unscrupulous companies. Many federal and state judges and state lawmakers have also criticized the bill, saying it would strip states of an important role in judging such contests and could add a considerable number of cases to already burdened federal dockets.

"This bill is one of the most unfair, anticonsumer proposals to come before the Senate in years," said Senator Harry Reid of Nevada, the minority leader. "It slams the courthouse doors on a wide range of injured plaintiffs. It turns federalism upside down by preventing state courts from hearing state law claims. And it limits corporate accountability at a time of rampant corporate scandals."

In the vote on Thursday, 18 Democrats joined 53 Republicans and the lone Senate independent, James M. Jeffords of Vermont, in supporting the measure. Democrats cast all 26 dissenting votes. Two Republicans, Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania and John Sununu of New Hampshire, did not vote.

Republicans say they hope the vote will provide momentum for two other major bills overhauling the tort law system, one on asbestos litigation, the other on curbs on medical malpractice lawsuits. Critics of these bills say that part of the effort by the White House is to attack trial lawyers, a vital financial base of support for the Democratic Party. They have also said that like Social Security and the war in Iraq, tort law problems have been exaggerated by the Bush administration, and that proposed solutions go much further than necessary.

The legislation approved by the Senate would prohibit state courts from hearing most of the kinds of class actions that have most troubled corporate America - those in which the class consists of many consumers or employees from around the nation who assert significant injuries of one sort or another. It precludes state courts from considering cases involving claims of more than $5 million and having a member of the class living in a state different from the defendant's.

Critics of the legislation say that since the Supreme Court and several appeals courts have imposed limits on the ability of federal district judges to consider cases involving the varying laws of multiple states, the legislation will deter the filing of meritorious lawsuits.

Some experts in civil procedure and class actions said they believed that the fight would now move to federal courts and that some federal judges might become more receptive to hearing such claims now that they know that their dismissal would mean that no one else would hear them.

"The assumption of business interests was that federal courts will continue to dismiss them blindly, ignorant of the fact that there is nowhere else for these cases to go," said Samuel Issacharoff, an expert on civil procedure at Columbia Law School who is the main author of a coming treatise on different kinds of cases involving many parties, including class actions, for the American Law Institute, an influential organization of lawyers, academics and judges. "I think more highly of federal courts," Mr. Issacharoff said, "that they will realize that they stand between justice and the breach."

Stephen B. Burbank, an expert on class actions and civil procedure at the University of Pennsylvania School of Law, also expects federal judges to try to find ways to hear the cases.

"Don't underestimate the ability of federal judges to find ways around this if they can," Professor Burbank said.

But he said lower federal courts would remain constrained by the precedents set by the Supreme Court and appeals courts that sharply limit their ability to hear cases involving the differing laws of multiple states.

Professor Burbank, who recently completed a study on the sharp decline in the trials of all civil cases, said he feared that one impact of the legislation would be a further reduction in such cases, particularly since federal judges must give priority to criminal cases and already have heavy dockets. Class-action lawsuits rarely make it to trial but require considerable time because judges are called upon by lawyers from both sides to rule on a variety of pretrial motions.

Prof. Arthur R. Miller of Harvard Law School, a longtime critic of the legislation who in previous years worked with organizations that tried to soften the measure, said that the legislation could lead to the balkanization of class-action litigation by encouraging plaintiffs' lawyers to file smaller suits in different courts, rather than a single large nationwide action.

"This will clearly have a dampening effect on class actions," Professor Miller said. "But accomplished law firms will figure out how to work with it."

He also said that the vague language of the new legislation was certain to spawn a significant amount of new litigation over the law's terms.

"This is not neat and crisp like the Ten Commandments," he said.

Lawyers at several firms specializing in class actions said they had not begun to think about what legal maneuvers were possible to get their highly profitable class actions heard. One lawyer at a prominent class-action firm said that part of the reason plaintiffs' lawyers had not prepared a strategy yet was that many lawyers had expected the legislation to take longer to adopt as Senate and House members wrangled over terms.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 21:45
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Ack! Bush tries to curb class actions suits! Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
How else are individuals who have been harmed by a big corporation, but don't have the money themselves for a long suit going to get relief?!



I think you've found the reason right there.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 21:47 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm all for this legislation.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 21:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

See, that whole "Buy a Senator" program works wonders!

to the 26 who voted against this.

Anyone got a list?

And what ever happened to states rights?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:02
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote:
And what ever happened to states rights?


In Bush's America, they only exist when the administration wants them to, in order to make a point.

MikeH is offline MikeH
Emperor
Ming on rakastajani
May 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:06 Visit MikeH's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Suffering from ads?

Big Corporations Financially Support Re-Election

Big Corporations get legislation they want.


Legal prostitution.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:30 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

The deal here is that the trial attorney's had set up plaintiffs' paradises in some states, such as Florida. This measure stops the jurisdiction shopping of these jackels.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I'm all for this legislation.


Of course you are, because you're a corporate whore.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:34 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Inflate your Upload Space

You're right. It's just the fvcked up people like you that I don't mind.

Edit: Oh, oh. That's not what you wrote originally. Tsk, tsk.

Last edited by DanS on 11-02-2005 at 22:41

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 22:37 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Of course you are, because you're a corporate whore.


All of my clients are European companies, who already have sane litigation laws in their own countries.

But FYI, I have worked once in support of a class action suit.

Last edited by DanS on 11-02-2005 at 22:46

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
The deal here is that the trial attorney's had set up plaintiffs' paradises in some states, such as Florida. This measure stops the jurisdiction shopping of these jackels.


And it is Florida's right to set up plaintiff friendly laws. If the companies don't like it, don't do business there (then you won't have members of the class from Florida). Furthermore, the court must balance all the states' laws in class action suits, it cannot simply use its own for people who have no contacts to the state (and no other connection to the state). Like said earlier, what happened to states' rights?

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
Prince
t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:19 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

... why are you against this?

oh, right, it's your future bread and butter.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:20
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton

I'm not going to be involved in litigation, so it actually isn't going to be. I doubt the government really makes cash on this stuff

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

direct democracy is the way to go. no way would this law have passed if given a referendum.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:24
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

DanS, why do you hate America so much?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:25 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Edit: Oh, oh. That's not what you wrote originally. Tsk, tsk.


DanS'd ya.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:27 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
All of my clients are European companies, who already have sane litigation laws in their own countries.


Europe also has much stricter regulation, thus mitigating the need for torts. You need a strong system of at least one or the other, but you seem to be opposed to both. Caveat emptor is not a viable system.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:28
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
direct democracy is the way to go. no way would this law have passed if given a referendum.


Don't be so sure. You would have had the Bush propaganda that this stuff is making your doctors move away, etc.

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:33 Visit Ramo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Anyone got a list?


YEAs ---72

Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Allen (R-VA)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burns (R-MT)
Burr (R-NC)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dole (R-NC)
Domenici (R-NM)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Frist (R-TN)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Isakson (R-GA)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Schumer (D-NY)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Talent (R-MO)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)

NAYs ---26

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Clinton (D-NY)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 2

Santorum (R-PA)
Sununu (R-NH)

Suprised by Obama's vote.

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

The number of democrats who voted for this is disturbing...

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:25
  Old Post 11-02-2005 23:48 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Democrats are worse than useless.

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
King

Donate to the Red Cross

Sep 2002
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:10
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#22 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

quote:
Suprised by Obama's vote.


And Lincoln's. But Pryor did the right thing on this one.

quote:
The number of democrats who voted for this is disturbing...


As disturbing as the number of Republicans who voted against it...

yaroslav is offline yaroslav
Emperor
Madrid, Spain, Europe
Jun 2001
time: 06:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:18
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#23 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote:


As disturbing as the number of Republicans who voted against it...



Yep.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#24 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Where the hell was Edwards in that list?

Ramo is offline Ramo
King
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:23 Visit Ramo's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#25 Report this post to a moderator
Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

He's not a Senator anymore. He didn't run for re-election and a Republican won his seat.

Ogie Oglethorpe is offline Ogie Oglethorpe
King
Marietta, GA
Dec 1999
time: 05:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 00:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#26 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
He's not a Senator anymore. He didn't run for re-election and a Republican won his seat.


Damn forgot that factoid.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:01
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#27 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

over 70% of privately filed multistate party class actions in the USA are forum shopped and filed in JUST THREE COUNTIES in the entire country. The bill is to control forum shopping by scurilous plaintiff's attornies. The reason plaintiff's attornies dislike the federal courst is stricter standards of practice, particularly reagarding BS pseudo-scientific evidence and real penalties for attornies who break the rules.

Last edited by Lefty Scaevola on 12-02-2005 at 01:14

Moral Hazard is offline Moral Hazard
King
of jack
Jul 1999
time: 01:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#28 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

It's a good bill. A national class action suit belongs in the federal courts. They didn't belong in a jurisdiction which only became eligible by the fact that a single product might have been sold in that county.

The practice of awarding coupons didn't end up hurting the companies at all. It's good to see that curtailed. In some cases (KB toys) companies were forced to have sales, which of course they could use to their advantage, drawing more customers into their stores.

The democrats are spinning the issue (The republicans too, but in my opinion to a lesser degree) If a third of the plaintiffs are in state then the class action can still be filed in state. So state issues can still be filed in state, but national issues will have to be decided on a national level, doesn't that make sense?

It's nice to give the Republicans a since I haven't been able to for a while. Then again their FICA plans

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:55
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#29 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
So state issues can still be filed in state, but national issues will have to be decided on a national level, doesn't that make sense?


Are we planning on doing this will all suits that have a 'national' component to them? If so, prepare for flooding of the federal court system. After all, suits involving Constitutional issues of state law are also a national issue.

Lefty Scaevola is offline Lefty Scaevola
Emperor
San Antonio TX USA
Oct 2000
time: 23:25
  Old Post 12-02-2005 01:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#30 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

The 'coupon case' slap at the trial lawyers will be popular; restricting the attornies from pocketing millions in cash when the plaintiffs only get coupons form the defendant company is going to chap the shysters' asses.

"The bill also would limit lawyers' fees in so-called coupon settlements -- when plaintiffs get discounts on products instead of financial settlements -- by linking the fees to the coupon's redemption rate or the actual hours spent working on a case."

 
Pages (5): [ 1   2   3   4     >> ]
< Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:25.
Apolyton Time is 00:25.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0575 seconds (92.45% PHP - 7.55% MySQL) with 30 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net